1 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:06,510 [Music] 2 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:37,049 hello and welcome to the show 3 00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:40,570 hi Martin Willis your host and you know 4 00:00:44,100 --> 00:00:42,190 it's funny when I a lot of times I'll 5 00:00:46,049 --> 00:00:44,110 mention our guests you know coming up 6 00:00:49,350 --> 00:00:46,059 the following week happens a lot and 7 00:00:51,810 --> 00:00:49,360 ends up being a different guests so you 8 00:00:53,790 --> 00:00:51,820 never really know who you're gonna have 9 00:00:54,990 --> 00:00:53,800 we have the great Kevin Randle on 10 00:00:57,299 --> 00:00:55,000 tonight I'm really excited about that 11 00:01:01,709 --> 00:00:57,309 always fun talking with him he's a 12 00:01:03,150 --> 00:01:01,719 no-nonsense type of guy and so next week 13 00:01:05,070 --> 00:01:03,160 we're supposed to have Leslie Kane on 14 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:05,080 and someone from the new skinwalker 15 00:01:11,279 --> 00:01:08,410 History Channel series I'm not sure I 16 00:01:14,389 --> 00:01:11,289 don't have that information in in front 17 00:01:18,090 --> 00:01:14,399 of me right now so if you want to know 18 00:01:20,249 --> 00:01:18,100 who we're having as a guest for sure 19 00:01:22,410 --> 00:01:20,259 well unless something happens the day of 20 00:01:26,550 --> 00:01:22,420 all you have to do is go over to podcast 21 00:01:30,140 --> 00:01:26,560 UFO comm and you will see there right at 22 00:01:33,450 --> 00:01:30,150 the top right hand side there is a an 23 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:33,460 email mailing list all you have to do is 24 00:01:40,020 --> 00:01:37,090 drop your email on that and it's called 25 00:01:41,850 --> 00:01:40,030 a weekly newsletter and click sign up 26 00:01:44,580 --> 00:01:41,860 and then you will get a link to activate 27 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:44,590 in your mailbox so that's all you have 28 00:01:49,469 --> 00:01:45,970 to do if you want to find out what's 29 00:01:52,620 --> 00:01:49,479 going on and also we put our our blogs 30 00:01:54,569 --> 00:01:52,630 in there as well and this week's blog by 31 00:01:56,969 --> 00:01:54,579 Charles Lear who writes for us every 32 00:01:59,210 --> 00:01:56,979 week does a great job as UFOs and the 33 00:02:03,149 --> 00:01:59,220 predicted death of Frank Edwards 34 00:02:05,490 --> 00:02:03,159 interesting kind of mystery situation 35 00:02:07,170 --> 00:02:05,500 but an interesting case and we're going 36 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:07,180 to be talking about a lot of interesting 37 00:02:12,180 --> 00:02:09,610 case tonight I do want to say I hope 38 00:02:15,060 --> 00:02:12,190 everyone out there is all my good 39 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:15,070 listeners are healthy and staying safe 40 00:02:21,660 --> 00:02:17,850 and we are going to be talking about 41 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:21,670 UFOs and a great book the best of 42 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:24,970 Project Blue Book of now Kevin I don't 43 00:02:29,819 --> 00:02:27,910 have it in front of me but I'm gonna say 44 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:29,829 I think yes I do have it in front of me 45 00:02:36,470 --> 00:02:33,910 Kevin has has published a hunt he has 46 00:02:38,270 --> 00:02:36,480 written a hundred and twenty-five books 47 00:02:45,470 --> 00:02:38,280 can you believe that I mean that's just 48 00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:45,480 amazing and 27 of UFO books were 49 00:02:51,020 --> 00:02:47,310 published as far as I know I think I 50 00:02:54,050 --> 00:02:51,030 have that right and so Kevin welcome to 51 00:02:57,199 --> 00:02:54,060 the show well thank you good to be here 52 00:02:59,120 --> 00:02:57,209 and in your you know you've done this I 53 00:03:02,180 --> 00:02:59,130 think this is the second time you have 54 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:02,190 done this like Kevin my guest is it's 55 00:03:05,449 --> 00:03:03,690 not going to work out with my guests can 56 00:03:07,970 --> 00:03:05,459 you help me and you've been very 57 00:03:10,339 --> 00:03:07,980 gracious so I don't want you to only 58 00:03:15,020 --> 00:03:10,349 come on like that but I think this is 59 00:03:17,330 --> 00:03:15,030 the second time you've done yes yeah and 60 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:17,340 I just want to like somebody's got a 61 00:03:24,140 --> 00:03:22,049 rescue you yeah that's right anyway I've 62 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:24,150 always a pretty appreciated your work 63 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:27,690 and I've said this before your blog that 64 00:03:33,770 --> 00:03:31,530 you have you really look into things and 65 00:03:36,229 --> 00:03:33,780 sometimes if I'm wondering about a case 66 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:36,239 I'm not really certain about it I'll go 67 00:03:39,890 --> 00:03:38,370 on your blog and sure enough there it is 68 00:03:41,780 --> 00:03:39,900 you've written about I don't have you 69 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:41,790 ever counted how many things you've 70 00:03:47,390 --> 00:03:44,730 written about on that blog there's over 71 00:03:50,539 --> 00:03:47,400 a thousand postings thousand postings so 72 00:03:53,449 --> 00:03:50,549 if you want to get what I think is the 73 00:03:56,090 --> 00:03:53,459 real good source of what's going on 74 00:03:56,900 --> 00:03:56,100 Kevin how is uh what are you what is the 75 00:04:04,340 --> 00:03:56,910 blog 76 00:04:07,069 --> 00:04:04,350 right well I'm when I'm doing my radio 77 00:04:07,879 --> 00:04:07,079 show I always say WW Kevin Randle blog 78 00:04:11,990 --> 00:04:07,889 spot.com 79 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:12,000 hey you got it down but I think if you 80 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:13,650 just tape type my name in there the 81 00:04:17,719 --> 00:04:15,810 first thing that come in in your search 82 00:04:21,469 --> 00:04:17,729 engine the first thing comes up is the 83 00:04:22,490 --> 00:04:21,479 blog yeah yeah and the second and this I 84 00:04:24,969 --> 00:04:22,500 can't believe the second thing that 85 00:04:27,830 --> 00:04:24,979 comes up is Kevin Randall's net worth 86 00:04:29,870 --> 00:04:27,840 I'm a little celebrity pages as a net 87 00:04:31,850 --> 00:04:29,880 worth and I can take from my own 88 00:04:33,350 --> 00:04:31,860 experience because my net worth 89 00:04:35,060 --> 00:04:33,360 according those pages is somewhere 90 00:04:37,909 --> 00:04:35,070 between a hundred thousand and a hundred 91 00:04:40,550 --> 00:04:37,919 and thirty four million dollars they 92 00:04:43,339 --> 00:04:40,560 keep changing it daily that's a 93 00:04:45,740 --> 00:04:43,349 completely and totally inaccurate I will 94 00:04:47,300 --> 00:04:45,750 confess that it is between a hundred 95 00:04:48,250 --> 00:04:47,310 thousand and one hundred and thirty four 96 00:04:51,470 --> 00:04:48,260 million 97 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:51,480 well that's always we should yeah 98 00:04:54,070 --> 00:04:53,250 although we don't really know these days 99 00:04:58,460 --> 00:04:54,080 right now 100 00:04:59,990 --> 00:04:58,470 it could be tricky but anyway yeah is it 101 00:05:01,340 --> 00:05:00,000 isn't there a celebrity named kevin 102 00:05:02,390 --> 00:05:01,350 Randall's that they're mixing you up 103 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:02,400 with that and there's something like 104 00:05:06,650 --> 00:05:05,010 that is there a celebrity no no it's me 105 00:05:09,350 --> 00:05:06,660 because one of the pictures up there is 106 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:09,360 of me at the podium at the MUFON 107 00:05:15,650 --> 00:05:12,810 conference formation that relates 108 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:15,660 directly to me so it is it is me that's 109 00:05:21,260 --> 00:05:18,930 there yeah yeah I just happen to catch 110 00:05:24,650 --> 00:05:21,270 just the first opening part of one of 111 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:24,660 your shows that you do and with Kurt 112 00:05:29,060 --> 00:05:26,850 Collins I really I've always liked Kurt 113 00:05:31,129 --> 00:05:29,070 Collins and he's going to be on the show 114 00:05:35,270 --> 00:05:31,139 I think in another couple months here 115 00:05:38,690 --> 00:05:35,280 four months here are you hearing feeling 116 00:05:41,210 --> 00:05:38,700 hearing feedback I get I have some 117 00:05:45,650 --> 00:05:41,220 feedback coming through here now anyway 118 00:05:47,930 --> 00:05:45,660 so it stopped I heard you say right off 119 00:05:50,510 --> 00:05:47,940 the bat that you watched Project Blue 120 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:50,520 Book on the History Channel and you said 121 00:05:59,090 --> 00:05:52,050 you don't have any reason why they call 122 00:06:01,070 --> 00:05:59,100 it that name well the first season they 123 00:06:02,659 --> 00:06:01,080 were doing with Blue Book stuff when 124 00:06:06,409 --> 00:06:02,669 they were dealing with Blue Book cases 125 00:06:07,969 --> 00:06:06,419 yes but the last episode was there well 126 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:07,979 one more episode wayward skinwalker 127 00:06:12,260 --> 00:06:10,410 ranch which is completely and totally 128 00:06:15,110 --> 00:06:12,270 bogus but I think it was a setup the 129 00:06:17,570 --> 00:06:15,120 series it's coming up and then the last 130 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:17,580 episode they had a Russian airplane 131 00:06:22,580 --> 00:06:19,650 crash in Canada and they run the scene 132 00:06:26,050 --> 00:06:22,590 to defuse an atomic bomb and it has 133 00:06:28,340 --> 00:06:26,060 nothing to do with Project Blue Book the 134 00:06:31,159 --> 00:06:28,350 their office there they're doing a 135 00:06:34,340 --> 00:06:31,169 classified project in 1952 when this 136 00:06:37,340 --> 00:06:34,350 program is allegedly set they're dealing 137 00:06:38,779 --> 00:06:37,350 with classified materials it's an office 138 00:06:40,490 --> 00:06:38,789 where they deal with classified yet 139 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:40,500 there's big windows in the doors there's 140 00:06:43,850 --> 00:06:41,970 windows all over the place they're not 141 00:06:46,180 --> 00:06:43,860 taped up they're not closed there's 142 00:06:49,700 --> 00:06:46,190 stuff all over the walls and their 143 00:06:53,330 --> 00:06:49,710 secretary their clerk clerk typist 144 00:06:55,219 --> 00:06:53,340 she's like an airman basic she has no 145 00:06:56,990 --> 00:06:55,229 stripes whatsoever I cannot believe 146 00:06:58,760 --> 00:06:57,000 you've got a classified project and 147 00:07:01,940 --> 00:06:58,770 you've got someone who has been in the 148 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:01,950 Air Force probably about a year you 149 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:03,450 they would have had a secretary with a 150 00:07:08,330 --> 00:07:07,170 little bit more rank she would have she 151 00:07:11,330 --> 00:07:08,340 would have had to have a clearance she 152 00:07:12,950 --> 00:07:11,340 would have had to have a clearance and 153 00:07:15,650 --> 00:07:12,960 not all enlisted personnel have 154 00:07:17,180 --> 00:07:15,660 clearances so you know there are all 155 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:17,190 kinds of things like that they just kind 156 00:07:21,020 --> 00:07:19,050 of annoy me last the last year they did 157 00:07:24,110 --> 00:07:21,030 okay but this year has just gone 158 00:07:29,390 --> 00:07:24,120 completely off the rails now when I 159 00:07:31,610 --> 00:07:29,400 spoke to allen hynek's sun-god I'm 160 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:31,620 missing his ball yeah 161 00:07:38,420 --> 00:07:35,610 Paul Paul said that you know they review 162 00:07:42,700 --> 00:07:38,430 basically the whole season with him and 163 00:07:45,590 --> 00:07:42,710 he did have he did have an objection and 164 00:07:48,020 --> 00:07:45,600 but he said yeah an objection to had 165 00:07:49,220 --> 00:07:48,030 something to with his mother or no it 166 00:07:51,950 --> 00:07:49,230 had something no that was the first 167 00:07:54,530 --> 00:07:51,960 season this the second season had 168 00:07:56,990 --> 00:07:54,540 something to do with something that J 169 00:08:00,140 --> 00:07:57,000 Allen Hynek supposedly was going to say 170 00:08:03,260 --> 00:08:00,150 and he said no you can't cross that line 171 00:08:05,540 --> 00:08:03,270 you've got to change that and but but I 172 00:08:09,020 --> 00:08:05,550 guess he you know he's one of the 173 00:08:10,580 --> 00:08:09,030 consultants of of the series I've 174 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:10,590 interviewed him on my program as well 175 00:08:13,970 --> 00:08:12,450 and got the same impression that he was 176 00:08:15,950 --> 00:08:13,980 delighted with the series that there 177 00:08:18,740 --> 00:08:15,960 were really any big objections to it 178 00:08:20,570 --> 00:08:18,750 even though a lot of it is complete and 179 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:20,580 total fantasy you know 180 00:08:25,010 --> 00:08:23,490 Jayla in flying in airplanes and they're 181 00:08:26,780 --> 00:08:25,020 running around all over the country with 182 00:08:28,490 --> 00:08:26,790 the the chief of project Bluebook whose 183 00:08:31,850 --> 00:08:28,500 name and this program is Quinn and 184 00:08:36,350 --> 00:08:31,860 getting in fist fights and all kinds of 185 00:08:38,690 --> 00:08:36,360 nonsense I just have no I I just cannot 186 00:08:40,700 --> 00:08:38,700 see jail and Hynek getting into a fist 187 00:08:45,650 --> 00:08:40,710 fight with anybody yeah yeah 188 00:08:49,070 --> 00:08:45,660 do you um do you think that it's it kind 189 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:49,080 of hurts the whole situation you know of 190 00:08:53,270 --> 00:08:51,690 people that are just starting to you 191 00:08:55,130 --> 00:08:53,280 know think that this you know look into 192 00:08:57,460 --> 00:08:55,140 this topic and think that you know what 193 00:09:01,610 --> 00:08:57,470 they're watching is all based on true 194 00:09:04,010 --> 00:09:01,620 true stories and I mean I would have 195 00:09:05,690 --> 00:09:04,020 said last year it really doesn't hurt 196 00:09:06,980 --> 00:09:05,700 all that much because they do deal with 197 00:09:08,540 --> 00:09:06,990 the cases and then there's little 198 00:09:10,310 --> 00:09:08,550 vignettes at the end that gives you kind 199 00:09:14,270 --> 00:09:10,320 of the real information about the case 200 00:09:14,750 --> 00:09:14,280 yeah when they did Kelly Hopkinsville 201 00:09:17,750 --> 00:09:14,760 you 202 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:17,760 the farmhouse was invaded by the alien 203 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:20,010 creatures they kind of dropped the ball 204 00:09:23,420 --> 00:09:22,050 on that one because if you well if 205 00:09:27,140 --> 00:09:23,430 you've studied the case you know that 206 00:09:29,390 --> 00:09:27,150 although the the family was actively 207 00:09:32,450 --> 00:09:29,400 shooting at the aliens and knocking them 208 00:09:34,490 --> 00:09:32,460 down they get up and run off but when 209 00:09:35,810 --> 00:09:34,500 they showed it on the TV show they had 210 00:09:38,300 --> 00:09:35,820 bullet holes all throughout the house 211 00:09:39,590 --> 00:09:38,310 these people weren't that stupid they 212 00:09:41,390 --> 00:09:39,600 weren't shooting holes in their own 213 00:09:46,490 --> 00:09:41,400 house shooting out the window you 214 00:09:49,850 --> 00:09:46,500 dummies you know and and they would they 215 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:49,860 had a lynch mob that the the the farmers 216 00:09:59,690 --> 00:09:51,810 with their torches and their pitchforks 217 00:10:03,260 --> 00:09:59,700 storming the 19:52 siding with Katherine 218 00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:03,270 Mae and those people the and the nay I 219 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:05,040 cannot believe the name actually escapes 220 00:10:15,010 --> 00:10:08,730 me at the moment September of 1952 just 221 00:10:17,630 --> 00:10:15,020 September 12 the West Virginia case yeah 222 00:10:21,170 --> 00:10:17,640 well you know I think I think the show 223 00:10:26,750 --> 00:10:21,180 is you know it's made for entertainment 224 00:10:28,430 --> 00:10:26,760 but it's also you know I think it's it's 225 00:10:29,780 --> 00:10:28,440 interesting I haven't really watched a 226 00:10:32,780 --> 00:10:29,790 lot of it this year I think I watched 227 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:32,790 the first four or five episodes but I 228 00:10:43,420 --> 00:10:36,570 really I really do I did you I believe 229 00:10:50,270 --> 00:10:43,430 you did interview David O'Leary no I 230 00:10:52,250 --> 00:10:50,280 I interviewed our taro he was the vice 231 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:52,260 senior vice president I had him on my 232 00:10:54,950 --> 00:10:54,330 show and we talked about the program and 233 00:10:57,740 --> 00:10:54,960 things like that 234 00:11:01,220 --> 00:10:57,750 he since moved on to a bigger and better 235 00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:01,230 job interestingly he did send me a 236 00:11:05,780 --> 00:11:04,350 picture when Robert friend turned a 237 00:11:09,860 --> 00:11:05,790 hundred Robert friend had been one of 238 00:11:14,900 --> 00:11:09,870 the Chiefs of project Bluebook at the 239 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:14,910 end of 1919 50s 1959 1960 and he was he 240 00:11:18,620 --> 00:11:16,770 was in charge of project Bluebook but he 241 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:18,630 was also a Tuskegee Airman I did not 242 00:11:22,340 --> 00:11:20,850 know that until way too late I would 243 00:11:27,050 --> 00:11:22,350 have loved to talk to him about that 244 00:11:28,220 --> 00:11:27,060 aspect of his career but but the point 245 00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:28,230 is Arturo had sent me a picture 246 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:30,480 of him and I think the Hynix and and 247 00:11:35,780 --> 00:11:34,530 Robert friend which was kind of an 248 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:35,790 interesting thing I put the picture up 249 00:11:43,220 --> 00:11:40,490 on my blog so people can see it but you 250 00:11:45,410 --> 00:11:43,230 know we're doing entertainment and and I 251 00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:45,420 just don't understand Hollywood in that 252 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:47,160 respect 253 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:49,410 take the Custer massacre they always 254 00:11:56,330 --> 00:11:51,810 have to jazz it up with something I'm 255 00:11:58,610 --> 00:11:56,340 thinking you've got a amazing story here 256 00:12:01,940 --> 00:11:58,620 you don't need to embellish it with 257 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:01,950 Hollywood nonsense the same thing with 258 00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:03,930 the the first movie on Midway that they 259 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:06,300 did in the 1970s they had that that 260 00:12:14,660 --> 00:12:10,890 story that Charlton Heston's son was 261 00:12:16,580 --> 00:12:14,670 running around with a Japanese woman who 262 00:12:18,620 --> 00:12:16,590 had been who was involved in the 263 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:18,630 interments her family had been interred 264 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:21,200 when they rounded up the Japanese 265 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:22,710 japanese-americans and they should have 266 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:26,850 done it and they got all into that 267 00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:28,890 nonsensical aspect of it which is just 268 00:12:33,380 --> 00:12:31,680 not germane to the story of Midway and 269 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:33,390 one of the important things that they 270 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:36,330 really kind of glossed over was the fact 271 00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:40,010 that we were reading the Japanese codes 272 00:12:46,610 --> 00:12:42,510 that we had broken the codes and the 273 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:46,620 Japanese were of the mindset that a code 274 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:48,570 created by the Japanese would be near 275 00:12:54,980 --> 00:12:51,330 perfect and we Occidental's would be 276 00:12:56,570 --> 00:12:54,990 unable to crack this code and of course 277 00:12:58,430 --> 00:12:56,580 they had been able to do it that was how 278 00:13:01,550 --> 00:12:58,440 we knew that they were going to attack 279 00:13:05,810 --> 00:13:01,560 Midway and had our forces there to repel 280 00:13:07,850 --> 00:13:05,820 that assault and and you know that to me 281 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:07,860 isn't fascinating part of the story as 282 00:13:13,540 --> 00:13:10,890 well but they interject this love story 283 00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:13,550 and they're for no reason other than I 284 00:13:18,410 --> 00:13:16,110 guess to condemn the United States for 285 00:13:21,650 --> 00:13:18,420 rounding the Japanese japanese-americans 286 00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:21,660 I should say upon after the attack on 287 00:13:25,010 --> 00:13:22,320 Pearl Harbor 288 00:13:26,690 --> 00:13:25,020 you can understand the mindset you can 289 00:13:28,610 --> 00:13:26,700 understand what they were thinking it 290 00:13:31,460 --> 00:13:28,620 was completely wrong and what's always 291 00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:31,470 glossed over is German Americans and 292 00:13:35,270 --> 00:13:33,060 Italian Americans were also put in 293 00:13:36,980 --> 00:13:35,280 internment camps not in the numbers of 294 00:13:38,890 --> 00:13:36,990 the Japanese but they also were interred 295 00:13:41,310 --> 00:13:38,900 and that's never brought up either so 296 00:13:44,340 --> 00:13:41,320 the real point is you've got 297 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:44,350 something that's I think fascinating in 298 00:13:50,070 --> 00:13:46,690 and of itself and they've always got to 299 00:13:53,070 --> 00:13:50,080 do something to jazz it up and take it 300 00:13:55,830 --> 00:13:53,080 away from the real story and when they 301 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:55,840 say that's based on real facts in 302 00:14:00,960 --> 00:13:57,970 today's world they've gone completely 303 00:14:02,820 --> 00:14:00,970 and totally off the rails and I don't 304 00:14:05,250 --> 00:14:02,830 know what other than there was a project 305 00:14:08,450 --> 00:14:05,260 Bluebook and J Allen Hynek was a real 306 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:08,460 guy I'm not sure what they're doing hmm 307 00:14:16,350 --> 00:14:13,090 well you know I you know not really much 308 00:14:18,540 --> 00:14:16,360 to argue with as far as that goes 309 00:14:21,090 --> 00:14:18,550 because you know you're not the only one 310 00:14:24,570 --> 00:14:21,100 that has said almost exactly the same 311 00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:24,580 thing like there is already so much to 312 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:26,560 it why why does it have to be 313 00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:28,890 embellished I've had that exact phrase 314 00:14:37,740 --> 00:14:32,710 you know quoted on this show before and 315 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:37,750 I I understand kind of both sides of 316 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:39,250 this I understand you'd have to try to 317 00:14:44,130 --> 00:14:40,810 make something really you know 318 00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:44,140 entertaining too you know as far as the 319 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:47,230 characters and and what happens to you 320 00:14:51,390 --> 00:14:49,330 know grab the people inning you can get 321 00:14:56,940 --> 00:14:51,400 them to keep coming back every week to 322 00:15:00,030 --> 00:14:56,950 see you know what's next but you know 323 00:15:02,310 --> 00:15:00,040 III get both sides of it really you know 324 00:15:05,190 --> 00:15:02,320 well I would say this 325 00:15:07,650 --> 00:15:05,200 you've got movies today that have no 326 00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:07,660 plot no character development all 327 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:09,700 they're doing is high-speed chases and 328 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:12,310 explosions let's drive over there know 329 00:15:18,930 --> 00:15:15,970 something that yeah I'm saying you write 330 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:18,940 it if you're a good writer and a good 331 00:15:24,210 --> 00:15:21,490 storyteller this should be fascinating 332 00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:24,220 without the embellishments I've always 333 00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:25,600 said that I think history should be the 334 00:15:29,010 --> 00:15:27,040 most fascinating course that's taught in 335 00:15:31,770 --> 00:15:29,020 schools because you're dealing with real 336 00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:31,780 people and real events that you see in 337 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:33,550 the movies and you there's books like 338 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:35,290 thousands and thousands of books written 339 00:15:41,010 --> 00:15:37,570 about it and yet they managed to suck 340 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:41,020 the life on a history when when was the 341 00:15:46,770 --> 00:15:43,450 Declaration of Independence signed well 342 00:15:48,690 --> 00:15:46,780 on July 4th 1776 well not really and 343 00:15:51,420 --> 00:15:48,700 some of the names weren't appended until 344 00:15:55,250 --> 00:15:51,430 what months later well we don't get that 345 00:15:56,750 --> 00:15:55,260 and we don't get what what would 346 00:15:58,100 --> 00:15:56,760 cause this sort of thing where we're 347 00:15:59,150 --> 00:15:58,110 just busy learning people and dates 348 00:16:01,340 --> 00:15:59,160 we're not learning anything about the 349 00:16:02,750 --> 00:16:01,350 persons or the people involved in that 350 00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:02,760 sort of thing so I don't think you need 351 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:04,500 the embellishment but it's it's gotten 352 00:16:09,890 --> 00:16:07,770 into lazy storytelling well what what 353 00:16:11,210 --> 00:16:09,900 interest people well we want to bring in 354 00:16:14,210 --> 00:16:11,220 the teenage boys and they'd like to see 355 00:16:15,950 --> 00:16:14,220 stuff blow up if you remember remember 356 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:15,960 that one well blowed up real good 357 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:19,050 yeah that was miss stripes I think right 358 00:16:27,290 --> 00:16:22,290 yeah baby oh I was thinking of the great 359 00:16:28,670 --> 00:16:27,300 white north on SCTV but that's okay but 360 00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:28,680 if you remember Mythbusters they were 361 00:16:33,380 --> 00:16:30,240 always blowing stuff up oh yeah I think 362 00:16:34,670 --> 00:16:33,390 it pop it well let's head let's add two 363 00:16:37,850 --> 00:16:34,680 tons of dynamite you see a little 364 00:16:41,060 --> 00:16:37,860 blow-up now oh I see oh I see we have 365 00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:41,070 Dave Altman in the chat room and he just 366 00:16:47,630 --> 00:16:45,180 wrote and he is a let's see he's an 367 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:47,640 event a publicist for one of the people 368 00:16:53,150 --> 00:16:50,730 in Project Blue Book that's his what he 369 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:53,160 does and it says it allows regular 370 00:16:58,640 --> 00:16:55,170 people to get interested in the subject 371 00:17:00,860 --> 00:16:58,650 it's like the new x-files you know 372 00:17:04,010 --> 00:17:00,870 that's that's kind of his his take on 373 00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:04,020 why a project Bluebook does what it does 374 00:17:10,910 --> 00:17:07,260 I have I have no objection to that what 375 00:17:12,439 --> 00:17:10,920 I'm saying simply is that you don't need 376 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:12,449 to embellish it with a lot of Hollywood 377 00:17:18,620 --> 00:17:15,810 nonsense you know it to me it just 378 00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:18,630 smacks of poor writing I mean I spotted 379 00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:20,370 a flaw in the program that I thought 380 00:17:24,770 --> 00:17:21,750 nobody else in the world would have 381 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:24,780 spotted I mean we're dealing with 1952 382 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:26,910 and one of the generals Neal McDonough 383 00:17:31,670 --> 00:17:29,130 one of my favorite actors is wearing an 384 00:17:34,430 --> 00:17:31,680 Air Force Commendation Medal on his 385 00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:34,440 rivet his ribbons that wasn't created 386 00:17:39,890 --> 00:17:37,380 until 1958 yeah ergo I'm terrible I'm 387 00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:39,900 terrible like that myself I look at sets 388 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:41,630 and I'm always looking at sets and say 389 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:44,490 hmm 19 when's this supposed to take 390 00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:47,850 place 1962 well you know that's a you 391 00:17:52,220 --> 00:17:50,400 know that didn't come out until 1969 or 392 00:17:54,290 --> 00:17:52,230 you know the lava land whatever it is 393 00:17:55,790 --> 00:17:54,300 and I haven't figured out why they've 394 00:18:00,080 --> 00:17:55,800 got two four-star generals running 395 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:00,090 around in this program as sort of sort 396 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:02,370 of overseeing the whole thing we got to 397 00:18:06,980 --> 00:18:04,650 force to our generals running around I I 398 00:18:10,250 --> 00:18:06,990 would maybe buy one 399 00:18:12,290 --> 00:18:10,260 near general but you know two four-star 400 00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:12,300 generals who are deeply involved I don't 401 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:13,110 think so 402 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:15,450 and you can tell how important project 403 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:17,730 Bluebook became in 52 it was very 404 00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:19,770 important it there's no doubt about it 405 00:18:27,049 --> 00:18:21,809 and things evolved after the Robertson 406 00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:27,059 panel in 1952 over 1953 and and and then 407 00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:31,200 he started bringing in people to to lead 408 00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:34,470 it who were anti alien anti UFO type 409 00:18:39,860 --> 00:18:38,160 people and then and and it was sort of a 410 00:18:41,390 --> 00:18:39,870 dead-end job well what are you going to 411 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:41,400 do with this guy well he's got a couple 412 00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:43,170 more years on his career he's not going 413 00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:43,440 anywhere 414 00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:46,710 giving Project Blue Book and it's kind 415 00:18:52,490 --> 00:18:50,640 of a dead-end career for an Air Force 416 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:52,500 officer to be put in charge of Project 417 00:18:56,919 --> 00:18:54,450 Blue Book you know it's like you'll be 418 00:19:01,120 --> 00:18:56,929 in charge of the supply depot in 419 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:01,130 Bakersfield California accounting mess 420 00:19:07,730 --> 00:19:06,210 mess craze or Forks or something I mean 421 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:07,740 it was kind of a dead-end job and you 422 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:10,410 knew if you were yeah and that I always 423 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:12,210 felt that way that Hector quintanilla 424 00:19:15,410 --> 00:19:13,530 who was the last chief of project 425 00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:15,420 Bluebook I became there as a captain and 426 00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,240 he just stayed forever and he eventually 427 00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:20,160 retired as Lieutenant Colonel so he got 428 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:23,340 his promotions on time but I think him 429 00:19:28,340 --> 00:19:26,510 he was bitter and reading his book and 430 00:19:29,810 --> 00:19:28,350 some of the things he said I think we 431 00:19:31,220 --> 00:19:29,820 should bitter about being stuck in that 432 00:19:32,780 --> 00:19:31,230 dead-end job and he knew what they were 433 00:19:36,919 --> 00:19:32,790 doing to him the guy was a trained 434 00:19:40,780 --> 00:19:36,929 physicist you know I but but his name 435 00:19:44,660 --> 00:19:43,070 mexican-american and so they just sort 436 00:19:46,130 --> 00:19:44,670 of pushed him to the side that was what 437 00:19:48,860 --> 00:19:46,140 they did with him and I always I felt 438 00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:48,870 kind of bad for him because of that Wow 439 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:53,280 yeah now on in this book and that again 440 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:55,410 the title is it the best of Project Blue 441 00:20:00,290 --> 00:19:57,410 Book 442 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:00,300 were you action did you actually review 443 00:20:06,669 --> 00:20:02,610 the the files themselves because I know 444 00:20:09,919 --> 00:20:06,679 a lot of them are available I have had 445 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:09,929 Sousa mid-1990s a complete set of the 446 00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:13,170 Project Blue Book files on microfilm Wow 447 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:15,600 and then of course now a lot I now have 448 00:20:18,919 --> 00:20:17,130 a complete set well it's not I don't 449 00:20:20,509 --> 00:20:18,929 think it's complete but the vast 450 00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:20,519 majority of the site of the 451 00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:22,799 block project blue books on a one 452 00:20:26,839 --> 00:20:24,809 terabyte hard drive I can carry project 453 00:20:28,940 --> 00:20:26,849 Bluebook around in my pocket which 454 00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:28,950 always stuns me but yes I had complete 455 00:20:34,609 --> 00:20:31,200 access to the project Bluebook files I 456 00:20:36,499 --> 00:20:34,619 mean so I would compare what was on what 457 00:20:38,169 --> 00:20:36,509 I had digitally with what was originally 458 00:20:40,099 --> 00:20:38,179 in microfilm what happened was back in 459 00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:40,109 1976 when I was going to the University 460 00:20:46,489 --> 00:20:43,830 of Iowa actually was before that I was 461 00:20:47,839 --> 00:20:46,499 an Air Force ROTC and the newsletter 462 00:20:49,159 --> 00:20:47,849 came out and said that the Project Blue 463 00:20:51,799 --> 00:20:49,169 Book files are now available for 464 00:20:53,269 --> 00:20:51,809 scrutiny at they've been Declassified 465 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:53,279 they're available for scrutiny at 466 00:20:57,649 --> 00:20:56,369 Maxwell Air Force Base and I went to 467 00:20:59,479 --> 00:20:57,659 college and what I called my saga 468 00:21:02,449 --> 00:20:59,489 scholarship saga was a men's magazine 469 00:21:03,919 --> 00:21:02,459 from the 1950s and 60s you know it was 470 00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:03,929 like playboy it was just featured 471 00:21:08,180 --> 00:21:05,940 stories that were of interest to men and 472 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:08,190 they would always run a UFO article once 473 00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:09,450 a month and then they then they 474 00:21:14,419 --> 00:21:11,940 developed the saga UFO report it was all 475 00:21:16,519 --> 00:21:14,429 UFOs and I would periodically call the 476 00:21:17,959 --> 00:21:16,529 editor sometimes he'd call me back and 477 00:21:19,639 --> 00:21:17,969 sometimes he wouldn't well I discovered 478 00:21:22,609 --> 00:21:19,649 that I that the Project Blue Book files 479 00:21:25,099 --> 00:21:22,619 were available so I called the editor 480 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:25,109 and they said well can we take em SH as 481 00:21:27,909 --> 00:21:26,369 they always did and I said yes tell him 482 00:21:30,979 --> 00:21:27,919 I can give the project Bluebook files 483 00:21:33,589 --> 00:21:30,989 and the editor didn't call me the 484 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:33,599 managing editor called instead and he 485 00:21:36,889 --> 00:21:35,369 starts telling me what to look for I 486 00:21:39,379 --> 00:21:36,899 said well I guess we got an assignment 487 00:21:41,149 --> 00:21:39,389 don't we and so a friend of mine Bob 488 00:21:42,589 --> 00:21:41,159 cornea Cornette and I went down to the 489 00:21:44,479 --> 00:21:42,599 project went down to Maxwell Air Force 490 00:21:46,579 --> 00:21:44,489 Base and pawed through the files at that 491 00:21:48,919 --> 00:21:46,589 time this was before they were all 492 00:21:51,319 --> 00:21:48,929 redacted and the first thing we did was 493 00:21:55,399 --> 00:21:51,329 go the index and we wrote down the names 494 00:21:58,359 --> 00:21:55,409 of everybody who was the index had the 495 00:22:02,629 --> 00:21:58,369 the date of the sighting the witnesses 496 00:22:04,459 --> 00:22:02,639 the location and the conclusion that was 497 00:22:05,959 --> 00:22:04,469 drawn so we went through the all under 498 00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:05,969 denta files we wrote down all of that 499 00:22:09,469 --> 00:22:07,289 with the name so we can put the names 500 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:09,479 back in they really didn't do a good job 501 00:22:13,609 --> 00:22:11,369 of redacting the names the point being 502 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:13,619 is yes I had access to the Project Blue 503 00:22:20,029 --> 00:22:15,570 Book files and I've been playing with 504 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:20,039 them since the mid 1970s and if I opened 505 00:22:23,089 --> 00:22:21,570 the door and my cabinets back there I 506 00:22:25,060 --> 00:22:23,099 could show you the microfilm there was 507 00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:25,070 90 I think it's 96 rolls of microfilm 508 00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:28,289 and you you could purchase them one at a 509 00:22:31,219 --> 00:22:29,849 time and I would purchase them at as I 510 00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:31,229 need up so I ended up with a complete 511 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:33,720 set so yes I went through the project 512 00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:35,610 book file so what I did was I pulled up 513 00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:38,880 the project card that you would see on 514 00:22:45,970 --> 00:22:42,000 the the first thing you would see in the 515 00:22:49,070 --> 00:22:45,980 file and that is at the top of the page 516 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:49,080 with that sighting on it so you can read 517 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:50,730 what the Air Force said on the project 518 00:22:56,030 --> 00:22:52,890 card and then I detailed the sighting as 519 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:56,040 the Air Force investigated it but I had 520 00:22:59,390 --> 00:22:57,570 access to information the Air Force 521 00:23:03,080 --> 00:22:59,400 didn't have which simply is meaning that 522 00:23:04,610 --> 00:23:03,090 you know if once project Bluebook cause 523 00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:04,620 they didn't update the files or do 524 00:23:11,060 --> 00:23:06,270 anything and I was able to do that I was 525 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:11,070 able to talk to witnesses who could give 526 00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:12,930 me more information right could access 527 00:23:16,220 --> 00:23:14,400 additional information that the Air 528 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:16,230 Force didn't have access to at the time 529 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:18,690 so I brought all of that into play as 530 00:23:22,790 --> 00:23:20,730 well what happened afterwards what did 531 00:23:29,870 --> 00:23:22,800 what happened to the witnesses 532 00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:29,880 I talked to witnesses that were involved 533 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:31,950 in some of this for example the 534 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:34,050 Washington National sightings from 1952 535 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:37,050 what's these sightings of radar over 536 00:23:43,370 --> 00:23:39,330 Washington National Airport and two 537 00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:43,380 second separate nights in in July and I 538 00:23:50,270 --> 00:23:45,600 was able to talk to ouch el chop and 539 00:23:53,690 --> 00:23:50,280 Dewey forte who were in the radar room 540 00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:53,700 on the second night so I talked to the 541 00:23:57,770 --> 00:23:55,710 eye by talked to them in the 1990s but 542 00:23:59,660 --> 00:23:57,780 you know I asked the questions I wanted 543 00:24:01,130 --> 00:23:59,670 to ask and got the information so I was 544 00:24:03,020 --> 00:24:01,140 able to plug that information into the 545 00:24:04,970 --> 00:24:03,030 book stuff that didn't make it into 546 00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:04,980 Project Blue Book files that you know 547 00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:08,370 their their memories and their reaction 548 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:10,110 to what went on isn't in the Project 549 00:24:13,730 --> 00:24:11,610 Blue Book files and I was able to gather 550 00:24:15,530 --> 00:24:13,740 that information or use that information 551 00:24:19,370 --> 00:24:15,540 as they gathered it you know some 20 552 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:19,380 years ago so that was what the idea was 553 00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:23,610 here is some of these great stories here 554 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:25,950 is here are the some of the interviews I 555 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:27,690 conducted with people long after the 556 00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:30,410 events here are some photographs 557 00:24:36,020 --> 00:24:34,020 Levelland Texas for example I knew where 558 00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:36,030 the various sites were that the people 559 00:24:39,530 --> 00:24:37,710 saw the UFO that landed in Levelland 560 00:24:41,330 --> 00:24:39,540 Texas so I was able to go to the sites 561 00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:41,340 and here's a photograph of what the site 562 00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,110 looks like at least today so you get an 563 00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:45,840 idea of how desolate it really was out 564 00:24:49,340 --> 00:24:47,340 there I mean 565 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:49,350 things were going on but don Burlinson 566 00:24:54,740 --> 00:24:52,770 for example a guy living in Roswell New 567 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:54,750 Mexico by coincidence had studied the 568 00:25:00,740 --> 00:24:57,570 Levelland case he was able to interview 569 00:25:04,790 --> 00:25:00,750 the daughter and the widow of the 570 00:25:06,530 --> 00:25:04,800 sheriff yeah from Levelland and he 571 00:25:08,300 --> 00:25:06,540 learned that the sheriff had been told 572 00:25:10,580 --> 00:25:08,310 not to talk about the sighting and he 573 00:25:13,550 --> 00:25:10,590 wouldn't do it but it but it appears 574 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:13,560 that the sheriff got a lot closer to the 575 00:25:17,270 --> 00:25:15,570 UFO when he went out looking for it then 576 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:17,280 then had been in the project Bluebook 577 00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:19,050 files that suggests it was nine hundred 578 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:20,510 yards away or something like that 579 00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:23,370 talking to them that the family said 580 00:25:28,010 --> 00:25:25,860 yeah he got a lot closer and I was able 581 00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:28,020 to find a newspaper article by 582 00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:30,270 coincidence from the time frame that 583 00:25:34,970 --> 00:25:31,830 wasn't in the project Bluebook files 584 00:25:37,460 --> 00:25:34,980 that said where he was quoted to saying 585 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:37,470 he got within you know 200 yards of it 586 00:25:41,210 --> 00:25:39,570 he was much much closer and so that 587 00:25:45,230 --> 00:25:41,220 confirmed what the family said so we've 588 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:45,240 got a contemporary quote from a 589 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:47,490 newspaper that confirmed what the family 590 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:50,250 was saying you know fifty years later or 591 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:51,930 forty-five years later or whatever it 592 00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:53,850 was when Don talked to them well we all 593 00:25:57,170 --> 00:25:54,900 bet I was able to bring all of that 594 00:25:59,000 --> 00:25:57,180 information to play them in the book as 595 00:26:02,210 --> 00:25:59,010 well so it's not just what the Air Force 596 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:02,220 had to say it's additional information 597 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:03,930 that I was able to gather long after a 598 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:05,970 project were closed and and and append 599 00:26:12,410 --> 00:26:07,650 it to them he says well here's where we 600 00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:12,420 go today here's what we today I like 601 00:26:16,730 --> 00:26:14,700 that that approach is really really 602 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:16,740 great we're a little past our break we 603 00:26:21,530 --> 00:26:19,290 got to go into break so hang in everyone 604 00:26:23,540 --> 00:26:21,540 we'll be right back right after these 605 00:26:26,810 --> 00:26:23,550 messages all right welcome back to the 606 00:26:28,790 --> 00:26:26,820 show my guest tonight is Kevin Rendell 607 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:28,800 and we were talking about the levelin 608 00:26:34,820 --> 00:26:32,130 Texas case just before we went on break 609 00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:34,830 however Kevin I wanted to tell you guess 610 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:36,840 who's in the chat room we have Shane 611 00:26:40,850 --> 00:26:39,570 Ryan in the chat room he just said hi he 612 00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:40,860 remembers having dinner with you in 613 00:26:46,910 --> 00:26:44,240 Toronto Shane Ryan from Australia yeah 614 00:26:49,850 --> 00:26:46,920 Australia Australia you have a Westall 615 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:49,860 case we've had we had Shane on I don't 616 00:26:53,810 --> 00:26:52,770 know maybe a month or two ago that was 617 00:26:56,510 --> 00:26:53,820 back when they were having the fires 618 00:27:00,410 --> 00:26:56,520 down there and and but no it's good to 619 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:00,420 see him he's putting up all kinds of 620 00:27:02,460 --> 00:27:01,210 information 621 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:02,470 the chapter room for everyone which is 622 00:27:12,450 --> 00:27:07,890 great so so let's get getting back into 623 00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:12,460 your research I wanted to find out you 624 00:27:19,019 --> 00:27:16,000 said that you saw these files unredacted 625 00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:19,029 and you know a lot of times you see I 626 00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:21,279 don't know not these in particular but 627 00:27:26,430 --> 00:27:22,809 you see things that are really really 628 00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:26,440 redacted beyond being able to recognize 629 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:28,000 what they're talking about it has 630 00:27:32,659 --> 00:27:30,130 nothing to do with just private 631 00:27:34,830 --> 00:27:32,669 information or classified information I 632 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:34,840 guess what I'm getting at did you see 633 00:27:39,899 --> 00:27:37,570 anything really interesting on the 634 00:27:42,510 --> 00:27:39,909 unredacted files that are redacted and 635 00:27:44,220 --> 00:27:42,520 further files the only thing they 636 00:27:45,630 --> 00:27:44,230 redacted out of the project Bluebook 637 00:27:47,970 --> 00:27:45,640 files were the names and the personal 638 00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:47,980 information that's it okay so you but 639 00:27:52,139 --> 00:27:50,320 you you would look at a case and you 640 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:52,149 couldn't follow up on it because the 641 00:27:57,659 --> 00:27:54,250 names had been redacted but they did a 642 00:27:59,909 --> 00:27:57,669 crappy job and and and the one that the 643 00:28:01,279 --> 00:27:59,919 one that really cracked me up was they 644 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:01,289 had an interview with Kenneth Arnold 645 00:28:05,130 --> 00:28:03,850 who's the guy that started this whole 646 00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:05,140 thing with his sighting in Mount Ranier 647 00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:05,919 yeah 648 00:28:11,610 --> 00:28:08,559 there was a television telephone 649 00:28:13,380 --> 00:28:11,620 interview with him and they'd even gone 650 00:28:14,159 --> 00:28:13,390 to the trouble of crossing out his 651 00:28:18,510 --> 00:28:14,169 initials 652 00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:18,520 you know kaa but across the front in 653 00:28:24,260 --> 00:28:20,529 grease pencil letters that had to be a 654 00:28:26,730 --> 00:28:24,270 half an inch high it said Arnold case 655 00:28:30,690 --> 00:28:26,740 kind of gave the whole thing away in 656 00:28:33,330 --> 00:28:30,700 there pal and and then sometimes there 657 00:28:35,010 --> 00:28:33,340 would be newspaper articles appended to 658 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:35,020 the end of the file they didn't redact 659 00:28:41,970 --> 00:28:37,570 those so you could put the names back 660 00:28:44,399 --> 00:28:41,980 yeah because they were not taken out and 661 00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:44,409 things like that and and if you written 662 00:28:48,810 --> 00:28:47,289 most of the cases you read you could 663 00:28:51,210 --> 00:28:48,820 find the name if you read the case 664 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:51,220 material carefully about the names were 665 00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:52,210 in there because they would miss 666 00:28:56,399 --> 00:28:53,679 somebody's name and you could figure out 667 00:29:00,269 --> 00:28:56,409 who it was the only thing that we that I 668 00:29:03,690 --> 00:29:00,279 had trouble with is um the Lubbock 669 00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:03,700 lights the first sighting took place in 670 00:29:08,029 --> 00:29:05,440 Albuquerque before it got down to 671 00:29:11,610 --> 00:29:08,039 Lubbock her they think it's kind of 672 00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:11,620 together the sightings kind of match and 673 00:29:15,060 --> 00:29:14,049 they had I was able to get the name of 674 00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:15,070 the husband 675 00:29:19,770 --> 00:29:17,440 both its first and last name but most of 676 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:19,780 the newspapers set misses and didn't 677 00:29:22,530 --> 00:29:20,710 give her first name 678 00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:22,540 and it took me about 20 minutes to find 679 00:29:26,190 --> 00:29:24,640 her real first name it wasn't in the 680 00:29:27,090 --> 00:29:26,200 files I had to go online to do it and 681 00:29:28,350 --> 00:29:27,100 that's the other thing about the 682 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:28,360 internet you can usually find what you 683 00:29:33,090 --> 00:29:29,890 want I was able to find her first name 684 00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:33,100 so I can plug it into the story but that 685 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:34,960 was what they had redacted from that and 686 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:38,650 they the other thing is you heard I 687 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:40,450 think repeatedly there was no classified 688 00:29:44,220 --> 00:29:42,250 files and project Bluebook or things 689 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:44,230 like that and they would especially in 690 00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:45,250 the sixth year saying we have no 691 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:47,080 classified information when you go 692 00:29:50,670 --> 00:29:48,490 through the files and you could see the 693 00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:50,680 classification marks on it sometimes 694 00:29:54,990 --> 00:29:52,180 they're blacked out and heavy black 695 00:29:56,660 --> 00:29:55,000 magic marker so you can't see them but 696 00:29:59,490 --> 00:29:56,670 you know if it's a really long black 697 00:30:01,920 --> 00:29:59,500 smudge well that was confidential and if 698 00:30:03,780 --> 00:30:01,930 it's a sort of smudge it met secret but 699 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:03,790 sometimes they just crossed it out with 700 00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:05,710 a single stroke of a pen or something 701 00:30:09,270 --> 00:30:07,960 like that so you could see that they 702 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:09,280 were class though there were classified 703 00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:13,090 files there of course I think Rob Mercer 704 00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:19,120 from Ohio blundered into the project 705 00:30:22,530 --> 00:30:21,190 Bluebook files he said that and I 706 00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:22,540 interviewed him on my program I think 707 00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:23,790 you may have interviewed him as well 708 00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:26,590 that he was he would look at Craigslist 709 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:29,200 periodically for yes--you about material 710 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:32,050 and somebody was in a box of material up 711 00:30:36,210 --> 00:30:33,490 there that had Project Blue Book stuff 712 00:30:37,290 --> 00:30:36,220 in it so he bought the box and as he was 713 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:37,300 going through it he realized it really 714 00:30:40,890 --> 00:30:39,130 was Project Blue Book material and 715 00:30:43,910 --> 00:30:40,900 through some very nice detective work 716 00:30:46,890 --> 00:30:43,920 managed to find the guy who had 717 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:46,900 originally had the box of material and 718 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:49,450 there was more of it a guy named Carmen 719 00:30:53,390 --> 00:30:51,610 Morano who was the last technically last 720 00:30:55,380 --> 00:30:53,400 officer in charge of Project Blue Book 721 00:30:56,790 --> 00:30:55,390 because everybody else was gone and he 722 00:30:58,110 --> 00:30:56,800 was tearing down the office and you 723 00:31:00,000 --> 00:30:58,120 think the stuff would be destroyed he 724 00:31:01,710 --> 00:31:00,010 was going to go through it later but he 725 00:31:03,420 --> 00:31:01,720 just kept the boxes and when he moved he 726 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:03,430 inadvertently left a box behind and that 727 00:31:06,510 --> 00:31:05,410 was how Bob Mercer got his hands on it 728 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:06,520 cuz somebody bought it at a garage sale 729 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:09,970 and he had found Morano and he sent more 730 00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:11,290 stuff to him he said well you can have 731 00:31:16,590 --> 00:31:12,910 it off you want and in that was a 732 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:16,600 complete set index of Project Blue Book 733 00:31:23,730 --> 00:31:19,330 without the names redacted the index is 734 00:31:26,430 --> 00:31:23,740 quite I've got the index on printed out 735 00:31:28,590 --> 00:31:26,440 from from the microfilm and it's in two 736 00:31:28,980 --> 00:31:28,600 loose-leaf notebooks so it's I mean it's 737 00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:28,990 a he 738 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:30,399 index so he's got all that information 739 00:31:35,370 --> 00:31:33,250 but he's got everybody's name in that 740 00:31:37,529 --> 00:31:35,380 and there's other and a lot of the other 741 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:37,539 material isn't redacted so when I was 742 00:31:44,159 --> 00:31:40,690 doing stuff on oh when I was doing my 743 00:31:47,580 --> 00:31:44,169 book on Sakura I encounter in the desert 744 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:47,590 the Lonnie Zamora stuff he sent me the 745 00:31:53,639 --> 00:31:51,370 entire file from that he had that 746 00:31:55,169 --> 00:31:53,649 concluded not only the stuff that was in 747 00:31:56,669 --> 00:31:55,179 the official file but the unofficial 748 00:31:59,010 --> 00:31:56,679 file which they used to brief other 749 00:32:02,880 --> 00:31:59,020 people Ben moss and Tony Angie all I 750 00:32:05,010 --> 00:32:02,890 think it's the classified file but from 751 00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:05,020 what what Carmen bono told me and from 752 00:32:10,980 --> 00:32:07,929 what Robb Mercer told me what they had 753 00:32:13,380 --> 00:32:10,990 done was the cases that everybody was 754 00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:13,390 interested in they'd created other files 755 00:32:16,830 --> 00:32:15,340 so they could get to him easily and hand 756 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:16,840 him to the reporters or whatever wanted 757 00:32:23,399 --> 00:32:21,250 to look at them so it's not a secret 758 00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:23,409 unofficial file it's just an unofficial 759 00:32:28,409 --> 00:32:25,600 file but he sent me all of that stuff so 760 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:28,419 I had that I could plug that in and what 761 00:32:31,710 --> 00:32:30,130 kind of triggered that and I'm off onto 762 00:32:34,919 --> 00:32:31,720 the counters in the desert now which is 763 00:32:37,889 --> 00:32:34,929 about the Socorro landing we triggered 764 00:32:39,450 --> 00:32:37,899 that is I been Ben and Tony on my 765 00:32:41,310 --> 00:32:39,460 program and they had said they said a 766 00:32:42,930 --> 00:32:41,320 couple of times that three people had 767 00:32:46,139 --> 00:32:42,940 called into the police station before 768 00:32:48,779 --> 00:32:46,149 Zamora went out for some or got to the 769 00:32:52,380 --> 00:32:48,789 landing site to tell him about this 770 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:52,390 thing in the sky and I said is that in 771 00:32:54,990 --> 00:32:53,890 the police log did you look at the 772 00:32:57,810 --> 00:32:55,000 police log and I never got a 773 00:33:00,409 --> 00:32:57,820 satisfactory answer from them on that so 774 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:00,419 I was looking the stuff up myself and 775 00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:04,090 going through the the file I found a 776 00:33:09,630 --> 00:33:07,270 report written by Richard holder who was 777 00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:09,640 an Army officer who was there the night 778 00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,960 it happened and he was working with the 779 00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:12,880 FBI agent talking to some more in that 780 00:33:16,830 --> 00:33:15,279 stuff and he said in his report right 781 00:33:20,430 --> 00:33:16,840 there that three people are called into 782 00:33:21,630 --> 00:33:20,440 the police station with with reports of 783 00:33:24,510 --> 00:33:21,640 this thing flying over 784 00:33:27,149 --> 00:33:24,520 so here it's documented from April 24th 785 00:33:30,570 --> 00:33:27,159 1964 so you've got the documentation 786 00:33:32,940 --> 00:33:30,580 what stunned me was nobody followed up 787 00:33:34,590 --> 00:33:32,950 on that when you got the UFO 788 00:33:35,850 --> 00:33:34,600 investigators down there you got Hynek 789 00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:35,860 down there you got all those people down 790 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:38,399 there and the story is out there and 791 00:33:42,419 --> 00:33:40,450 nobody's tries to find who these 792 00:33:42,690 --> 00:33:42,429 witnesses are they didn't leave their 793 00:33:45,030 --> 00:33:42,700 name 794 00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:45,040 the police the police dispatcher didn't 795 00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:47,110 take their names and because he just was 796 00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,640 unimpressed with their stories but they 797 00:33:52,050 --> 00:33:50,320 knew the flight path it wouldn't have 798 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:52,060 been hard to find them given the size of 799 00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:54,850 Socorro at that time but nobody bothered 800 00:33:59,940 --> 00:33:58,210 to do that which is just one of the 801 00:34:02,700 --> 00:33:59,950 great missed opportunities because you 802 00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:02,710 would move the the Socorro case from 803 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:09,040 being a single witness Lonnie Zamora to 804 00:34:13,650 --> 00:34:11,290 multiple witnesses mm-hmm at different 805 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:13,660 locations as it flew over we have some 806 00:34:17,370 --> 00:34:15,490 documentation to suggest they were out 807 00:34:18,810 --> 00:34:17,380 there and it would have been really nice 808 00:34:20,610 --> 00:34:18,820 to talk to them and get their 809 00:34:23,220 --> 00:34:20,620 impressions of what they had seen but 810 00:34:25,590 --> 00:34:23,230 you know here we are 19 or 19 here we 811 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:25,600 are in 2020 not able to leave our houses 812 00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:30,490 and we can we just are unable to track 813 00:34:36,690 --> 00:34:35,110 the people down now Wow well I do want 814 00:34:38,940 --> 00:34:36,700 to talk about some of the cases because 815 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:38,950 that's you know we do get a lot of new 816 00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:40,330 listeners and a lot of times I forget 817 00:34:45,090 --> 00:34:43,270 and speaking of new listeners I just 818 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:45,100 found out this is the second show in the 819 00:34:52,650 --> 00:34:48,010 road in a row that my sister Heidi is 820 00:34:54,630 --> 00:34:52,660 watching so hi Heidi his I'm glad she's 821 00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:54,640 glad she's watching she she's a 822 00:34:57,810 --> 00:34:56,320 wonderful artist by the way and she's 823 00:35:00,770 --> 00:34:57,820 starting to make some art we're gonna 824 00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:00,780 actually put that up on on the website 825 00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:04,480 coming up soon hopefully but she's very 826 00:35:10,940 --> 00:35:09,310 talented anyway getting to cases I saw 827 00:35:13,980 --> 00:35:10,950 you know you talk a little bit about 828 00:35:14,910 --> 00:35:13,990 project sign and project grudge if I 829 00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:14,920 have that right 830 00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:20,560 the two the two one of my desk thank you 831 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:24,400 before yeah that now why did each of 832 00:35:27,540 --> 00:35:26,410 those and I want to talk up the ghost 833 00:35:28,590 --> 00:35:27,550 rockets and all that I want to talk 834 00:35:33,420 --> 00:35:28,600 about some of these really interesting 835 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:33,430 things but did they both close how did 836 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:36,490 this what made them close and go into 837 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:39,730 like the next process of of grudge and 838 00:35:49,010 --> 00:35:43,210 then it it closed yeah and what happened 839 00:35:55,620 --> 00:35:52,290 that was a classified name the public 840 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:55,630 name is project saucer so as they're 841 00:35:59,070 --> 00:35:56,290 moving along 842 00:36:02,370 --> 00:35:59,080 somehow the name got compromised they 843 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:02,380 wrote a final report they said sign is 844 00:36:06,270 --> 00:36:04,570 done we're done here's our final report 845 00:36:06,930 --> 00:36:06,280 all they did was change the name and 846 00:36:09,570 --> 00:36:06,940 kept going 847 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:09,580 change it to project grudge same thing 848 00:36:13,980 --> 00:36:10,930 again they changed the name from grudge 849 00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:13,990 to blue book they wrote a final report 850 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:15,520 and said we're done with project grudge 851 00:36:21,810 --> 00:36:18,130 it's all done but it became Project Blue 852 00:36:23,820 --> 00:36:21,820 Book so it was a way of kind of 853 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:23,830 protecting the classified names until 854 00:36:27,390 --> 00:36:25,810 they got out and then it was a way of 855 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:27,400 suggesting the public there was nothing 856 00:36:30,660 --> 00:36:29,170 important here because we've stopped 857 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:30,670 investigating but they didn't stop 858 00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:32,050 investigating and the same thing when 859 00:36:35,370 --> 00:36:33,670 the end of ended Project Blue Book in 860 00:36:37,590 --> 00:36:35,380 1969 they said well we're done we're not 861 00:36:39,810 --> 00:36:37,600 doing it anymore but then there was 862 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:39,820 project moon dust which had already been 863 00:36:44,130 --> 00:36:42,370 created and was used as a way of 864 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:44,140 continuing the investigations and 865 00:36:48,540 --> 00:36:47,650 there's and moon dust name was 866 00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:48,550 compromised 867 00:36:57,180 --> 00:36:53,920 the mid-1980s Robert Todd got a bunch of 868 00:36:59,280 --> 00:36:57,190 FOIA documents from the State Department 869 00:37:02,160 --> 00:36:59,290 and in there there was stuff talking 870 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:02,170 about moon dust and so he started 871 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:03,490 looking at the moon dust and realized it 872 00:37:08,250 --> 00:37:06,610 had a UFO component component if we had 873 00:37:09,330 --> 00:37:08,260 been really careful in our study of 874 00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:09,340 project Bluebook 875 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:12,160 we would have found cases in there 876 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:14,050 labelled moon dust there are really 877 00:37:20,220 --> 00:37:18,130 crappy cases they I think one or two of 878 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:20,230 them sound like meteors but you go 879 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:21,490 through and you read the project card 880 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:22,810 and it says right on the project card 881 00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:24,730 project moon dust or just says moon dust 882 00:37:30,270 --> 00:37:28,000 and I one of the books I did I actually 883 00:37:32,460 --> 00:37:30,280 had a I showed the car one of the cards 884 00:37:34,650 --> 00:37:32,470 that had that that term on it moon dust 885 00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:34,660 so clearly there was a UFO component and 886 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:39,280 clearly they were communicating with the 887 00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:40,570 moon dust people were communicating with 888 00:37:49,290 --> 00:37:42,910 blue book but general Bolender said in 889 00:37:50,820 --> 00:37:49,300 1969 that the really hot cases really in 890 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:50,830 cases of affected national security 891 00:37:53,580 --> 00:37:51,970 didn't go to blue book they went 892 00:37:54,930 --> 00:37:53,590 elsewhere so now we have a general 893 00:37:57,060 --> 00:37:54,940 officer telling us that not everything 894 00:38:00,900 --> 00:37:57,070 is communicated to blue book even though 895 00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:00,910 regulations required him and and we can 896 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:03,280 see that there were other investigations 897 00:38:08,370 --> 00:38:05,410 going on at that time so we know that 898 00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:08,380 this the blue book became little more 899 00:38:12,540 --> 00:38:09,760 than a public-relations out 900 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:12,550 fit but they got some really good cases 901 00:38:18,210 --> 00:38:15,010 while they were doing the investigation 902 00:38:20,220 --> 00:38:18,220 as I said there's a Moore case in 1964 903 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:20,230 which Bob which I also cover in the best 904 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:22,050 of Project Blue Book it's it's it's a 905 00:38:25,770 --> 00:38:24,490 condensed version of what what appears 906 00:38:28,830 --> 00:38:25,780 an encounter in the desert so if you 907 00:38:30,210 --> 00:38:28,840 notice in that case a lone encounter in 908 00:38:31,530 --> 00:38:30,220 the desert it's a book to look at but if 909 00:38:33,180 --> 00:38:31,540 you're interested in just you know the 910 00:38:34,830 --> 00:38:33,190 general look at Project Blue Book in 911 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:34,840 some of the best cases in it then the 912 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:36,970 best of Project Blue Book is what you 913 00:38:40,620 --> 00:38:38,170 want to do and one of the one of the 914 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:40,630 things I wanted to do and we talked with 915 00:38:45,230 --> 00:38:42,730 you and I mentioned earlier leave the 916 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:45,240 Condon committee they did a 917 00:38:52,260 --> 00:38:48,490 investigation of a sighting in 1954 they 918 00:38:53,660 --> 00:38:52,270 I mean reviewed it and they didn't solve 919 00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:53,670 it they didn't come up with a solution 920 00:38:59,880 --> 00:38:57,970 they said it was a natural phenomenon so 921 00:39:03,060 --> 00:38:59,890 rare it had never been seen before or 922 00:39:06,150 --> 00:39:03,070 since I'm thinking even if it's not 923 00:39:08,010 --> 00:39:06,160 leading you to an alien spacecraft a new 924 00:39:10,830 --> 00:39:08,020 natural phenomena would have been of 925 00:39:12,780 --> 00:39:10,840 scientific value to understand but they 926 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:12,790 just they just blew it off so what I did 927 00:39:17,390 --> 00:39:15,130 and the best project Bluebook I look for 928 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:17,400 additional information on that case from 929 00:39:22,650 --> 00:39:20,170 1954 and was able to find it and one of 930 00:39:24,780 --> 00:39:22,660 the things that came up in that was the 931 00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:24,790 pilots of the aircraft that made the 932 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:27,520 sighting near Greenland were 933 00:39:33,330 --> 00:39:31,690 interrogated by men from it may have 934 00:39:35,220 --> 00:39:33,340 been the Ministry of Defense in Great 935 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:35,230 Britain or may have been Air Force our 936 00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:41,050 Air Force OSI guys talking about it but 937 00:39:45,990 --> 00:39:43,510 there's a newspaper article where one of 938 00:39:48,180 --> 00:39:46,000 the other crew member had run into the 939 00:39:49,740 --> 00:39:48,190 pilots and asked him about the 940 00:39:51,420 --> 00:39:49,750 interrogation so now we can't talk about 941 00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:51,430 that so I was able to add additional 942 00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:54,400 detail to this this cases it appeared in 943 00:39:59,010 --> 00:39:56,560 the Condon report and give you some 944 00:40:00,180 --> 00:39:59,020 insight of to where where it is and the 945 00:40:02,430 --> 00:40:00,190 other thing I did in the book and I 946 00:40:05,130 --> 00:40:02,440 borrowed this from Jerry Clark in his 947 00:40:06,950 --> 00:40:05,140 massive UFO encyclopedia at the end of 948 00:40:09,660 --> 00:40:06,960 each segment he would list the sources 949 00:40:11,910 --> 00:40:09,670 and so at the end of each segment of the 950 00:40:15,330 --> 00:40:11,920 book I listed the sources used for that 951 00:40:17,690 --> 00:40:15,340 specific entry so you could go to those 952 00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:17,700 sources and kind of follow the trail 953 00:40:22,410 --> 00:40:20,710 that I had followed to get to where I 954 00:40:23,190 --> 00:40:22,420 got there and see if you see if you may 955 00:40:24,780 --> 00:40:23,200 come to 956 00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:24,790 same conclusion cited based on the 957 00:40:32,940 --> 00:40:27,040 research that you can kind of do 958 00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:32,950 yourself Wow now I just wanted to talk 959 00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:34,240 about some of the cases because that's 960 00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:36,640 always what's really fascinating too 961 00:40:41,940 --> 00:40:39,040 you know the listeners out there and one 962 00:40:45,140 --> 00:40:41,950 of them he's looking through his book 963 00:40:49,770 --> 00:40:45,150 for listening to the audio part of it 964 00:40:51,569 --> 00:40:49,780 anyway you talk about the ghost rockets 965 00:40:55,890 --> 00:40:51,579 which i think is a such a fascinating 966 00:41:02,700 --> 00:40:55,900 thing 1946 yeah you really are looking 967 00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:02,710 how I did but you in you know I only got 968 00:41:06,810 --> 00:41:04,800 to skim the first part of the book and 969 00:41:09,569 --> 00:41:06,820 but you were talking about the different 970 00:41:12,359 --> 00:41:09,579 phases of project sign and project 971 00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:12,369 grudge and all that but the ghost 972 00:41:16,410 --> 00:41:14,710 rockets I wouldn't just get back to that 973 00:41:18,300 --> 00:41:16,420 because I think it is so fascinating 974 00:41:21,150 --> 00:41:18,310 I've talked to class fond about that 975 00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:21,160 he's done a lot of research and those 976 00:41:27,660 --> 00:41:24,910 things landed in lakes and I know you 977 00:41:29,190 --> 00:41:27,670 mentioned that you know there was a lot 978 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:29,200 of speculation that these were Russian 979 00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:32,170 and you know no one really they never 980 00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:33,520 really figured out exactly what they 981 00:41:42,180 --> 00:41:40,480 were but interesting well I try to set 982 00:41:44,910 --> 00:41:42,190 up the whole thing to read make people 983 00:41:47,700 --> 00:41:44,920 understand that the UFO phenomena didn't 984 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:47,710 begin on June 24 1947 when Kenneth 985 00:41:51,390 --> 00:41:49,810 Arnold made his report yeah it began 986 00:41:53,849 --> 00:41:51,400 actually during the Second World War 987 00:41:55,380 --> 00:41:53,859 with the Foo Fighters yes and what is 988 00:41:56,910 --> 00:41:55,390 interesting is one of the guys involved 989 00:41:58,589 --> 00:41:56,920 in the investigation of the Foo Fighters 990 00:42:00,089 --> 00:41:58,599 was Colonel Howard McCoy he was an 991 00:42:01,589 --> 00:42:00,099 American 992 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:01,599 therefore it well Army Air Forces 993 00:42:06,809 --> 00:42:05,050 officer at the time and he was involved 994 00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:06,819 in but when the war ended nobody cared 995 00:42:10,370 --> 00:42:07,359 anymore 996 00:42:13,710 --> 00:42:10,380 I mean clearly the Foo Fighters were 997 00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:13,720 German or Japanese inventions they 998 00:42:17,730 --> 00:42:16,240 weren't you know they weren't enemy and 999 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:17,740 with the war over there was no real 1000 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:19,450 imperative to discover what they were so 1001 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:22,450 it just kind of faded away then in 1946 1002 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:25,810 you had the ghost rockets being seen in 1003 00:42:31,140 --> 00:42:29,170 Scandinavia over over this over the 1004 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:31,150 summer one of the people involved in 1005 00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:32,650 that was a guy named Howard McCoy you 1006 00:42:37,140 --> 00:42:36,250 ask the same guy and what you see is at 1007 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:37,150 the end of nineteen 1008 00:42:41,549 --> 00:42:39,130 46 and McCoy is in communication with 1009 00:42:44,579 --> 00:42:41,559 the people in Sweden where majority of 1010 00:42:48,329 --> 00:42:44,589 the investigation took place he is 1011 00:42:50,789 --> 00:42:48,339 called in from actually their Christmas 1012 00:42:53,039 --> 00:42:50,799 party in December of 1946 and told to 1013 00:42:56,099 --> 00:42:53,049 set up an unofficial investigation into 1014 00:42:57,720 --> 00:42:56,109 these aerial phenomenon so once you end 1015 00:42:59,819 --> 00:42:57,730 up with Kenneth Arnold 1016 00:43:02,880 --> 00:42:59,829 Howard McCoy has already got an 1017 00:43:05,339 --> 00:43:02,890 investigation in place and so it's it 1018 00:43:07,620 --> 00:43:05,349 morphed into the official investigation 1019 00:43:09,839 --> 00:43:07,630 of this and so Howard McCoy was involved 1020 00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:09,849 in it from the very beginning but the 1021 00:43:13,260 --> 00:43:11,680 thing is with the collapse of the Soviet 1022 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:13,270 Union the theory had been the Soviets 1023 00:43:19,950 --> 00:43:15,450 were doing it to intimidate the Swedes 1024 00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:19,960 for some reason and when the Soviet 1025 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:21,609 Union collapsed and a lot of that 1026 00:43:27,809 --> 00:43:24,130 they're classified documentation was 1027 00:43:30,299 --> 00:43:27,819 available for you world wide UFO 1028 00:43:31,799 --> 00:43:30,309 researchers nobody found anything to 1029 00:43:34,380 --> 00:43:31,809 suggest that the ghost rockets were 1030 00:43:36,510 --> 00:43:34,390 being being fired by the Soviets so it's 1031 00:43:37,769 --> 00:43:36,520 still a mystery we don't know where they 1032 00:43:40,140 --> 00:43:37,779 originated and what they were going 1033 00:43:41,519 --> 00:43:40,150 going - there are there's a couple of 1034 00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:41,529 pictures I think one of them shows a 1035 00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:45,190 meteor and but it's a picture of the guy 1036 00:43:49,470 --> 00:43:47,049 out on the lake with his equipment and 1037 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:49,480 there's a streak in the sky and that 1038 00:43:53,010 --> 00:43:50,770 sort of thing so there's some 1039 00:43:55,470 --> 00:43:53,020 interesting stuff going on there so it's 1040 00:43:58,019 --> 00:43:55,480 a very it's a fascinating aspect of the 1041 00:44:01,140 --> 00:43:58,029 UFO phenomenon but to understand where 1042 00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:01,150 we are how we got to where we are you 1043 00:44:05,789 --> 00:44:04,000 have to begin with the Foo Fighters of 1044 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:05,799 world war 2 and move forward so that was 1045 00:44:10,650 --> 00:44:07,930 why in the beginning of the book I do 1046 00:44:13,710 --> 00:44:10,660 that short history of how we got to the 1047 00:44:16,289 --> 00:44:13,720 point where we began an official UFO 1048 00:44:18,660 --> 00:44:16,299 investigation I see yeah 1049 00:44:20,130 --> 00:44:18,670 well that that all works for me let's 1050 00:44:23,730 --> 00:44:20,140 see we got in five minutes we got to go 1051 00:44:27,870 --> 00:44:23,740 to another break but so I wanted to get 1052 00:44:29,519 --> 00:44:27,880 into you know for the person knew that 1053 00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:29,529 is just starting to listen you know like 1054 00:44:33,539 --> 00:44:32,079 my sister as I just mentioned by the way 1055 00:44:36,089 --> 00:44:33,549 people in the chat room are trying to 1056 00:44:37,980 --> 00:44:36,099 get her to say embarrass tell them 1057 00:44:43,079 --> 00:44:37,990 embarrassing stories about my childhood 1058 00:44:46,529 --> 00:44:43,089 she's she's not going to do that but 1059 00:44:50,370 --> 00:44:46,539 let's talk about some of these like for 1060 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:50,380 instance you have the Rhodes photograph 1061 00:44:55,710 --> 00:44:54,010 in July 7 1947 that was again before 1062 00:44:58,650 --> 00:44:55,720 Project Blue Book but is that something 1063 00:45:03,540 --> 00:44:58,660 you want to talk about it's part of 1064 00:45:08,940 --> 00:45:03,550 Project Blue Book although the project 1065 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:08,950 blew but before sign even sign began in 1066 00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:10,690 January 1948 that's what I was trying to 1067 00:45:17,210 --> 00:45:15,280 remember here but after after Arnold and 1068 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:17,220 they began the unofficial investigation 1069 00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:19,810 their sightings that proceed even Arnold 1070 00:45:23,010 --> 00:45:21,760 in the Project Blue Book files but the 1071 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:23,020 problem with those they were reported 1072 00:45:27,390 --> 00:45:26,170 after Arnold so you can you begin to 1073 00:45:29,490 --> 00:45:27,400 wonder if that was something something 1074 00:45:32,190 --> 00:45:29,500 of contamination the Rhodes photograph 1075 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:32,200 was taken in Phoenix in the July of 1947 1076 00:45:40,020 --> 00:45:35,170 turns out Rhodes was a genius really 1077 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:40,030 smart guy held a number of patents it 1078 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:41,770 worked for the Navy during the beginning 1079 00:45:46,940 --> 00:45:44,530 of the Second World War the they were 1080 00:45:49,290 --> 00:45:46,950 going to hire him to do some research or 1081 00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:49,300 hire him on I think in the University of 1082 00:45:52,860 --> 00:45:50,800 Arizona but he had a very apprai 1083 00:45:54,330 --> 00:45:52,870 abrasive personality and he said it not 1084 00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:54,340 to work with him but he built some some 1085 00:45:59,100 --> 00:45:57,490 equipment for them you know designed 1086 00:46:00,900 --> 00:45:59,110 equipment for them and sort of that sort 1087 00:46:03,570 --> 00:46:00,910 of thing so he's a very bright guy he 1088 00:46:08,220 --> 00:46:03,580 took these two photographs in on July 1089 00:46:10,380 --> 00:46:08,230 7th over Phoenix not long after he took 1090 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:10,390 those photographs there was a sighting 1091 00:46:16,350 --> 00:46:12,330 event that took place in Washington 1092 00:46:19,050 --> 00:46:16,360 State and Kenneth Arnold was involved in 1093 00:46:24,090 --> 00:46:19,060 investigating that for Ray Palmer who 1094 00:46:25,770 --> 00:46:24,100 ran a science fiction magazine so Arnold 1095 00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:25,780 was down there and he had worked with 1096 00:46:30,990 --> 00:46:29,380 two officers from the 4th Air Force 1097 00:46:33,150 --> 00:46:31,000 foreign intelligence office they came up 1098 00:46:35,550 --> 00:46:33,160 to help Arnold with the investigation 1099 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:35,560 and pick up some physical evidence that 1100 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:37,330 turned out to be useless and I know 1101 00:46:40,830 --> 00:46:38,890 unfortunately the two officers were 1102 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:40,840 killed going back to their home base 1103 00:46:45,810 --> 00:46:43,210 when their airplane crashed but the 1104 00:46:49,980 --> 00:46:45,820 important point here is Arnold asked 1105 00:46:53,310 --> 00:46:49,990 about other sightings and he was told 1106 00:46:55,410 --> 00:46:53,320 that he was told about the roads 1107 00:46:58,020 --> 00:46:55,420 photograph and that that was something 1108 00:47:00,540 --> 00:46:58,030 that really disturbed the military 1109 00:47:03,650 --> 00:47:00,550 because the photograph matched the 1110 00:47:07,069 --> 00:47:03,660 description that Arnold had told 1111 00:47:09,410 --> 00:47:07,079 to the to the military if you look at 1112 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:09,420 the project Bluebook file with the 1113 00:47:13,819 --> 00:47:11,490 Arnold sighting in it there's a drawing 1114 00:47:15,950 --> 00:47:13,829 that he made and it's kind of a heel 1115 00:47:18,589 --> 00:47:15,960 shaped object the crescent shaped object 1116 00:47:21,349 --> 00:47:18,599 that it morphed into later on is kind of 1117 00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:21,359 stylized but the original drawing is a 1118 00:47:27,010 --> 00:47:24,089 heel shaped object and what Rhoads 1119 00:47:30,770 --> 00:47:27,020 photographed is a heel shaped object and 1120 00:47:32,210 --> 00:47:30,780 and so the military officers were 1121 00:47:36,589 --> 00:47:32,220 telling Arnold that you know this kind 1122 00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:36,599 of corroborated his sighting so you that 1123 00:47:41,180 --> 00:47:37,920 becomes the important point of the roads 1124 00:47:42,650 --> 00:47:41,190 photograph but the military after the 1125 00:47:45,319 --> 00:47:42,660 initial investigation worked very hard 1126 00:47:47,450 --> 00:47:45,329 to discredit roads they said well you 1127 00:47:49,220 --> 00:47:47,460 know it's an unemployed guy he's got 1128 00:47:51,740 --> 00:47:49,230 this laboratory in the backyard that he 1129 00:47:53,150 --> 00:47:51,750 he calls a panoramic laboratory and he's 1130 00:47:56,059 --> 00:47:53,160 the director of research or something 1131 00:47:57,980 --> 00:47:56,069 like that and his and he just plays 1132 00:47:59,960 --> 00:47:57,990 piano at a bar and he's living off his 1133 00:48:02,029 --> 00:47:59,970 wife's income and that sort of thing and 1134 00:48:04,940 --> 00:48:02,039 just really can't trust him kind of 1135 00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:04,950 smeared his whole reputation because I 1136 00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:06,510 don't think they could really find 1137 00:48:10,549 --> 00:48:08,609 anything else to attack but when you get 1138 00:48:12,349 --> 00:48:10,559 into it you start talking about the guy 1139 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:12,359 and talking to his friends what happened 1140 00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:16,010 was I got him and I got a call from a a 1141 00:48:22,700 --> 00:48:20,460 fellow a fellow who told me about some 1142 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:22,710 of the road stuff and as I started 1143 00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:25,170 looking at it and discovered one of his 1144 00:48:32,930 --> 00:48:31,200 friends was our didn't mind in Minden 1145 00:48:36,349 --> 00:48:32,940 something like that who was at the 1146 00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:36,359 University of Arizona so just on a lark 1147 00:48:42,130 --> 00:48:38,910 I mean we're talking about 1947 I'm 1148 00:48:43,940 --> 00:48:42,140 looking at this stuff and in 2010 2011 1149 00:48:45,859 --> 00:48:43,950 just on a lark 1150 00:48:48,140 --> 00:48:45,869 I checked the University of Arizona 1151 00:48:52,700 --> 00:48:48,150 website and found the guy he's still 1152 00:48:54,349 --> 00:48:52,710 alive I emailed him he mailed me back so 1153 00:48:56,329 --> 00:48:54,359 he was able to tell me some of the stuff 1154 00:48:57,950 --> 00:48:56,339 about roads that the airforce didn't put 1155 00:49:00,289 --> 00:48:57,960 in their file so I was able to append 1156 00:49:02,089 --> 00:49:00,299 that to the the story as it appears in 1157 00:49:06,319 --> 00:49:02,099 the book so you learn about what he said 1158 00:49:09,079 --> 00:49:06,329 about the genius of William Rhodes and 1159 00:49:14,029 --> 00:49:09,089 how some of this stuff came about simply 1160 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:14,039 because Rhodes I think the military was 1161 00:49:17,339 --> 00:49:15,930 bothered by his photographs because they 1162 00:49:19,620 --> 00:49:17,349 were too close to what art what our 1163 00:49:21,660 --> 00:49:19,630 described and they worked very hard to 1164 00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:21,670 smear him especially after 1952 they 1165 00:49:25,140 --> 00:49:23,200 worked very hard to smear the guy's 1166 00:49:29,069 --> 00:49:25,150 reputation which i think is very 1167 00:49:32,819 --> 00:49:29,079 unfortunate well well we are right at 1168 00:49:34,380 --> 00:49:32,829 the break Kevin so we will be back right 1169 00:49:37,859 --> 00:49:34,390 after these messages 1170 00:49:40,739 --> 00:49:37,869 hang in welcome back to the show 1171 00:49:44,279 --> 00:49:40,749 my name is Martin Willis and my guest is 1172 00:49:46,019 --> 00:49:44,289 Kevin Randle always great having him on 1173 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:46,029 the show it's always a lot of fun 1174 00:49:51,749 --> 00:49:48,130 and we are gonna be taking calls in 1175 00:49:53,969 --> 00:49:51,759 about 20-25 minutes from now so that 1176 00:49:55,049 --> 00:49:53,979 number will be that number is there if 1177 00:49:56,489 --> 00:49:55,059 you want to write it down it's up on the 1178 00:49:59,999 --> 00:49:56,499 screen on youtube we can write it down 1179 00:50:03,150 --> 00:50:00,009 if you'd like and again that's in about 1180 00:50:07,739 --> 00:50:03,160 20 minutes or so we'll be back with that 1181 00:50:09,870 --> 00:50:07,749 number for you all and so Kevin as far 1182 00:50:12,180 --> 00:50:09,880 as some of the really interesting cases 1183 00:50:14,849 --> 00:50:12,190 when you were looking through this I 1184 00:50:16,650 --> 00:50:14,859 guess what I'm gonna ask you is did you 1185 00:50:19,950 --> 00:50:16,660 was there any case that you really 1186 00:50:21,479 --> 00:50:19,960 learned something the you know as you 1187 00:50:26,910 --> 00:50:21,489 looked into it that you were unaware of 1188 00:50:29,370 --> 00:50:26,920 that was that is of note talked a little 1189 00:50:31,950 --> 00:50:29,380 bit about some of the stuff with the 1190 00:50:33,739 --> 00:50:31,960 Rhodes photograph for example yeah and 1191 00:50:39,420 --> 00:50:33,749 looking at the Michigan sightings from 1192 00:50:42,450 --> 00:50:39,430 1966 the Great Swamp gas fiasco and 1193 00:50:45,269 --> 00:50:42,460 looking at that it was it was 1194 00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:45,279 interesting to see that the explanation 1195 00:50:50,579 --> 00:50:48,160 of swamp gas really doesn't fit because 1196 00:50:52,589 --> 00:50:50,589 the well with some of the witnesses got 1197 00:50:59,729 --> 00:50:52,599 way too close and the swamp gas is kind 1198 00:51:03,239 --> 00:50:59,739 of a a very nebulous type fire that has 1199 00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:03,249 a very short life it you know it bursts 1200 00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:05,710 out there and fades out very quickly 1201 00:51:14,130 --> 00:51:06,880 and they were looking at something much 1202 00:51:16,049 --> 00:51:14,140 more substantial but the way the the the 1203 00:51:18,479 --> 00:51:16,059 well the news media and the military 1204 00:51:22,370 --> 00:51:18,489 kind of manipulated the data manipulated 1205 00:51:25,739 --> 00:51:22,380 the information and how they tried to 1206 00:51:27,479 --> 00:51:25,749 provide a rationale as opposed to an 1207 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:27,489 extraterrestrial explanation for what 1208 00:51:30,359 --> 00:51:28,690 was going on there and how they were 1209 00:51:30,530 --> 00:51:30,369 treating some of the witnesses now that 1210 00:51:33,980 --> 00:51:30,540 was 1211 00:51:35,810 --> 00:51:33,990 one thing that throughout the cases you 1212 00:51:38,740 --> 00:51:35,820 would see the military not the military 1213 00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:38,750 the well the military and the civilians 1214 00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:41,910 being less than cordial to some of the 1215 00:51:45,470 --> 00:51:43,440 witnesses trying to tell them what they 1216 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:45,480 had seen as opposed to what did you see 1217 00:51:49,070 --> 00:51:47,610 type thing well this is really what you 1218 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:49,080 saw and they would say well no I didn't 1219 00:51:55,210 --> 00:51:51,330 see that so you go through the cases 1220 00:51:57,620 --> 00:51:55,220 like that and and and you you see I 1221 00:52:00,680 --> 00:51:57,630 guess a really important thing as you 1222 00:52:03,470 --> 00:52:00,690 see is the case as it's kind of been 1223 00:52:06,350 --> 00:52:03,480 covered in the media or what you've 1224 00:52:08,930 --> 00:52:06,360 heard about just briefly isn't really 1225 00:52:11,870 --> 00:52:08,940 quite the truth there's a lot more to 1226 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:11,880 the case a prime example is the 1227 00:52:16,370 --> 00:52:13,530 Levelland case which I mentioned earlier 1228 00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:16,380 you you you see that the Air Force 1229 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:17,280 saying well there are only three 1230 00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:19,530 witnesses that saw they saw the object 1231 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:22,710 and the Air Force gets into a big fight 1232 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:25,410 with Don Quixote NICAP about the number 1233 00:52:29,290 --> 00:52:27,210 of witnesses and Kehoe said well there 1234 00:52:31,690 --> 00:52:29,300 were nine there were nine witnesses 1235 00:52:34,220 --> 00:52:31,700 looking at the airforce file I found 1236 00:52:36,410 --> 00:52:34,230 thirteen witnesses I should say 1237 00:52:39,290 --> 00:52:36,420 witnesses at thirteen separate locations 1238 00:52:40,220 --> 00:52:39,300 that's in the airforce file and yet the 1239 00:52:41,420 --> 00:52:40,230 Air Force is saying there were only 1240 00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:41,430 three wid there were only three 1241 00:52:46,730 --> 00:52:44,310 witnesses and so you look at the that 1242 00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:46,740 sort of thing and you can see where the 1243 00:52:55,820 --> 00:52:50,880 military is manipulating the data Kehoe 1244 00:52:57,530 --> 00:52:55,830 is inflating the numbers but not enough 1245 00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:57,540 because we found out that were there 1246 00:53:00,620 --> 00:52:59,280 were more than he said so the big fight 1247 00:53:01,910 --> 00:53:00,630 was over the number of witnesses as 1248 00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:01,920 opposed to what did they see and what 1249 00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:03,660 were their their advanced I mean you've 1250 00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:05,520 got the object close to the ground 1251 00:53:12,500 --> 00:53:10,170 you've got guys within you know just a 1252 00:53:14,930 --> 00:53:12,510 few dozen feet of the thing it stalls 1253 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:14,940 their car engines it causes the lights 1254 00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:18,570 to fade it causes the radios to fade to 1255 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:20,250 fill with static and then when the 1256 00:53:25,340 --> 00:53:22,890 object leaves the lights come back on 1257 00:53:27,590 --> 00:53:25,350 the radio static goes away and their 1258 00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:27,600 cars will start and the one thing that I 1259 00:53:32,750 --> 00:53:29,730 discovered in looking at the level and 1260 00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:32,760 cases I noticed in one of the cases the 1261 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:35,280 guy said I was able to start my car and 1262 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:36,930 one of the things that we've heard about 1263 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:39,210 UFO sightings when they stole the car 1264 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:41,370 engine the car starts again and it's 1265 00:53:43,890 --> 00:53:43,530 like it's spontaneous the Condon 1266 00:53:47,010 --> 00:53:43,900 committee 1267 00:53:49,170 --> 00:53:47,020 well we can think of no physical reason 1268 00:53:50,730 --> 00:53:49,180 for the car to start spontaneously if 1269 00:53:53,210 --> 00:53:50,740 you suppress the engine especially using 1270 00:53:55,109 --> 00:53:53,220 a magnetic field it should not restart 1271 00:53:56,940 --> 00:53:55,119 you've interrupted the flow of 1272 00:53:58,769 --> 00:53:56,950 electricity so it may cause the lights 1273 00:54:00,990 --> 00:53:58,779 to dim but you're not going to get the 1274 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:01,000 car to start spontaneously and looking 1275 00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:03,010 at the case files I discovered that a 1276 00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:04,690 number of people didn't say the car 1277 00:54:09,180 --> 00:54:06,880 started spontaneously they said I was 1278 00:54:11,789 --> 00:54:09,190 able to start my car or the car was the 1279 00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:11,799 car would start so I went back through 1280 00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:16,690 all the the electromagnetic cases about 1281 00:54:20,730 --> 00:54:18,400 cars that mark Rottier had put together 1282 00:54:22,470 --> 00:54:20,740 he had a book that he put together on 1283 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:22,480 the electromagnetic effects and giving 1284 00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:24,250 you all the the cases and what I 1285 00:54:29,250 --> 00:54:26,890 discovered is often the person said that 1286 00:54:31,019 --> 00:54:29,260 the car you know the car started 1287 00:54:32,609 --> 00:54:31,029 together I was able to start the car who 1288 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:32,619 didn't say it started spontaneously 1289 00:54:37,289 --> 00:54:35,410 except in a very few cases and so the 1290 00:54:40,010 --> 00:54:37,299 Condon committee rejected it because of 1291 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:40,020 this idea they could think of no 1292 00:54:43,620 --> 00:54:42,010 physical reason for the car to start 1293 00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:43,630 spontaneously and it turns out that's a 1294 00:54:47,700 --> 00:54:45,609 misnomer they don't start spontaneously 1295 00:54:49,890 --> 00:54:47,710 that was one of the things I learned by 1296 00:54:53,250 --> 00:54:49,900 going through the the Levelland case 1297 00:54:54,660 --> 00:54:53,260 it's kind of what sparked that area of 1298 00:54:56,609 --> 00:54:54,670 research Wow 1299 00:54:58,920 --> 00:54:56,619 I would just tell this quick story I 1300 00:55:01,380 --> 00:54:58,930 have told it I don't know three or four 1301 00:55:03,420 --> 00:55:01,390 times on this show over the last several 1302 00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:03,430 years but it's really fascinating some 1303 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:06,490 line those lines and that is up and I 1304 00:55:14,130 --> 00:55:08,410 actually visited where this happened in 1305 00:55:16,829 --> 00:55:14,140 Russia so this guy was driving this guy 1306 00:55:19,140 --> 00:55:16,839 that I talked to it's a as my friend's 1307 00:55:21,779 --> 00:55:19,150 father told the story it's not into UFOs 1308 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:21,789 doesn't didn't even know what it was but 1309 00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:23,770 they were driving through a pass a very 1310 00:55:28,170 --> 00:55:25,839 busy pass and in Russia I mean I like I 1311 00:55:32,099 --> 00:55:28,180 said I've driven I've ridden through it 1312 00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:32,109 and all the cars stalled all the cars 1313 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:33,730 coming both way stalled and they pulled 1314 00:55:37,980 --> 00:55:36,010 over to the side of the road and his 1315 00:55:39,180 --> 00:55:37,990 stalled of course and he got out lifted 1316 00:55:40,980 --> 00:55:39,190 the hood and everyone else is lifting 1317 00:55:43,650 --> 00:55:40,990 the hood and all of a sudden without any 1318 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:43,660 sound at all this big cigar shaped thing 1319 00:55:48,660 --> 00:55:45,490 came right through the pass right over 1320 00:55:51,269 --> 00:55:48,670 them with portholes he saw portholes in 1321 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:51,279 it and then it floated he said it was 1322 00:55:55,829 --> 00:55:52,930 just like moved through like it floated 1323 00:55:57,720 --> 00:55:55,839 through and then everyone kind of looked 1324 00:55:59,790 --> 00:55:57,730 at each other and no one talked 1325 00:56:01,320 --> 00:55:59,800 about it someone jumps back in their car 1326 00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:01,330 after it went through and it started and 1327 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:03,730 everyone's car started to back up I mean 1328 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:05,290 isn't that bizarre that's just another 1329 00:56:11,490 --> 00:56:08,410 one of those I love actually hearing 1330 00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:11,500 stories from someone that is you know 1331 00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:13,450 here's a Russian guy telling the story 1332 00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:16,450 it's being translated to me and pretty 1333 00:56:23,580 --> 00:56:18,640 cool well this sounds like the stokke 1334 00:56:26,010 --> 00:56:23,590 story from New Mexico back in 1957 after 1335 00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:26,020 the after the level and sightings I just 1336 00:56:32,010 --> 00:56:28,690 a couple of days later and they driving 1337 00:56:34,349 --> 00:56:32,020 down toward Orel Grande and there's a 1338 00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:34,359 pass in the Oregon mountains I mean it's 1339 00:56:39,210 --> 00:56:36,970 not a big high pass or anything like 1340 00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:39,220 that but that's what happened to him he 1341 00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:40,450 drives up on there there's a bunch of 1342 00:56:44,190 --> 00:56:41,680 cars pulled to the side of the road 1343 00:56:46,170 --> 00:56:44,200 their fault they've all stopped and his 1344 00:56:47,460 --> 00:56:46,180 car stalls out so he drifts over to the 1345 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:47,470 side of the road gets out of the car 1346 00:56:52,550 --> 00:56:49,690 you're looking up at the thing it gets a 1347 00:56:55,140 --> 00:56:52,560 sunburn like a sunburn from from this 1348 00:56:57,540 --> 00:56:55,150 and he was treated in the hospital 1349 00:56:59,880 --> 00:56:57,550 it was a very light sunburn and it faded 1350 00:57:01,380 --> 00:56:59,890 quickly but I think car Lorenzen and Jim 1351 00:57:03,270 --> 00:57:01,390 Lorenzen from the Aero phenomena 1352 00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:03,280 research organization they got there in 1353 00:57:07,890 --> 00:57:05,080 time because they lived in Alamogordo 1354 00:57:09,690 --> 00:57:07,900 and of course it's a Holloman Air Force 1355 00:57:11,250 --> 00:57:09,700 Base in that area where this took place 1356 00:57:13,230 --> 00:57:11,260 so they were got there in time to see 1357 00:57:14,849 --> 00:57:13,240 the the sunburn on the guy by the time 1358 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:14,859 the Air Force investigators got there 1359 00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:17,770 the suntan had faded I was able to talk 1360 00:57:22,530 --> 00:57:20,170 to one of the guys at White Sands 1361 00:57:24,390 --> 00:57:22,540 Missile Range which is co-located with 1362 00:57:26,220 --> 00:57:24,400 Holloman you have to keep thinking 1363 00:57:27,690 --> 00:57:26,230 people don't understand don't know all 1364 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:27,700 these details at Holloman is right there 1365 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:29,890 by white sands and white sands goes all 1366 00:57:33,380 --> 00:57:31,210 the way up in New Mexico to nearly 1367 00:57:36,900 --> 00:57:33,390 Socorro and all of this sort of thing 1368 00:57:41,430 --> 00:57:36,910 but I talked to one of the guys one of 1369 00:57:43,230 --> 00:57:41,440 the MPS who was on duty the the second 1370 00:57:45,540 --> 00:57:43,240 the night of the level and sightings 1371 00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:45,550 down November 2nd morning of November 1372 00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:48,130 3rd 1957 after the thing had left 1373 00:57:51,630 --> 00:57:48,850 Levelland 1374 00:57:54,599 --> 00:57:51,640 they get involved in the UFO sighting 1375 00:57:56,460 --> 00:57:54,609 and there were four MPs involved in it 1376 00:57:57,660 --> 00:57:56,470 and that's what really killed me about 1377 00:57:58,950 --> 00:57:57,670 this so the Air Force comes to 1378 00:58:01,109 --> 00:57:58,960 investigate and they're making fun of 1379 00:58:02,910 --> 00:58:01,119 the well you know they're just a bunch 1380 00:58:05,130 --> 00:58:02,920 of kids out there are the MPS there are 1381 00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:05,140 21 22 years old I'm thinking really 1382 00:58:09,450 --> 00:58:07,510 you're gonna do that now you play that 1383 00:58:11,579 --> 00:58:09,460 silly game I was an army helicopter 1384 00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:11,589 pilot in Vietnam and Eric 1385 00:58:17,130 --> 00:58:15,130 commander at 19 and so you're making fun 1386 00:58:20,039 --> 00:58:17,140 of these guys who are much more mature 1387 00:58:21,719 --> 00:58:20,049 than I was who were regarding this thing 1388 00:58:23,819 --> 00:58:21,729 as well we you know they were just a 1389 00:58:27,299 --> 00:58:23,829 bunch of excitable kids and I'm thinking 1390 00:58:28,319 --> 00:58:27,309 now I ain't gonna buy that fella I was 1391 00:58:30,329 --> 00:58:28,329 the other thing I kind of learned that 1392 00:58:32,430 --> 00:58:30,339 as well as you know you look at that you 1393 00:58:33,630 --> 00:58:32,440 can see how the Air Force kind of 1394 00:58:35,219 --> 00:58:33,640 manipulated the data or the 1395 00:58:37,620 --> 00:58:35,229 investigators would manipulate to the 1396 00:58:39,180 --> 00:58:37,630 data to make it Mattos and make the 1397 00:58:41,849 --> 00:58:39,190 witnesses seem not as credible as they 1398 00:58:44,579 --> 00:58:41,859 were Wow yeah that doesn't that doesn't 1399 00:58:47,069 --> 00:58:44,589 surprise me Kent now I've got a little 1400 00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:47,079 bit of an inside scoop here that I 1401 00:58:51,209 --> 00:58:49,210 forgot to even ask you if was okay if I 1402 00:58:54,930 --> 00:58:51,219 talked about and you can tell me yes or 1403 00:58:57,359 --> 00:58:54,940 no and there's a Roswell series I think 1404 00:58:59,579 --> 00:58:57,369 you were actually interviewed is that 1405 00:59:04,859 --> 00:58:59,589 that's coming up can you talk at all 1406 00:59:08,609 --> 00:59:04,869 about that no I'm just kidding you 1407 00:59:11,849 --> 00:59:08,619 cracked me up and I it's part of a 1408 00:59:15,079 --> 00:59:11,859 larger series where some famous guys 1409 00:59:19,289 --> 00:59:15,089 investigating a lot of UFO scholars or 1410 00:59:22,109 --> 00:59:19,299 paranormal stuff or cryptozoology stuff 1411 00:59:22,709 --> 00:59:22,119 and part of the series takes place in 1412 00:59:25,979 --> 00:59:22,719 Rhossili 1413 00:59:27,749 --> 00:59:25,989 devote six hours of this series all the 1414 00:59:29,940 --> 00:59:27,759 others are like an hour an hour two 1415 00:59:33,299 --> 00:59:29,950 hours they devote six hours to the 1416 00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:33,309 Roswell case and so they've we went back 1417 00:59:38,370 --> 00:59:36,640 down and looked at the Ramey memo if the 1418 00:59:44,759 --> 00:59:38,380 Special Collections at the University of 1419 00:59:47,609 --> 00:59:44,769 Texas at Arlington and try to try to try 1420 00:59:49,349 --> 00:59:47,619 to decipher that a little bit better and 1421 00:59:51,089 --> 00:59:49,359 they've talked to a lot of the people 1422 00:59:51,930 --> 00:59:51,099 had them ourselves involved in that sort 1423 00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:51,940 of thing so it's going to be a very 1424 00:59:55,709 --> 00:59:53,410 interesting thing and there's some very 1425 00:59:57,959 --> 00:59:55,719 interesting stuff that I can't talk 1426 00:59:59,789 --> 00:59:57,969 about yet till the Sun series Heroes I'm 1427 01:00:01,440 --> 00:59:59,799 sitting here thinking I got to do a blog 1428 01:00:04,109 --> 01:00:01,450 posting because this is really great 1429 01:00:05,819 --> 01:00:04,119 stuff and I can't do it because it 1430 01:00:09,529 --> 01:00:05,829 wouldn't I mean they it was their 1431 01:00:12,089 --> 01:00:09,539 discovery so they get to they get to 1432 01:00:14,069 --> 01:00:12,099 break the story at the beginning but 1433 01:00:18,390 --> 01:00:14,079 once it once it airs I'm going to have 1434 01:00:19,620 --> 01:00:18,400 the producer of the show on my show when 1435 01:00:20,849 --> 01:00:19,630 we get to the point where the series 1436 01:00:22,050 --> 01:00:20,859 will air oh they think a little bit 1437 01:00:23,910 --> 01:00:22,060 error in June 1438 01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:23,920 but they weren't sure exactly what the 1439 01:00:26,610 --> 01:00:25,930 scheduling was gonna be on the on the 1440 01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:26,620 History Channel 1441 01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:30,250 Wow so I want to keep on the loop in 1442 01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:31,810 that so I can let my listeners know and 1443 01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:34,930 so if before that goes up I would I mean 1444 01:00:39,150 --> 01:00:36,880 anything new is always interesting when 1445 01:00:40,410 --> 01:00:39,160 it comes to a case like that I think you 1446 01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:40,420 know we've looked again at the Ramey 1447 01:00:45,060 --> 01:00:42,730 memo and and those of who I was with 1448 01:00:48,780 --> 01:00:45,070 Josh gates down there two or three years 1449 01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:48,790 ago doing the same sort of thing and so 1450 01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:51,610 yeah but you get to see you know you've 1451 01:00:55,500 --> 01:00:53,890 heard about the Ramey memo and Special 1452 01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:55,510 Collections and you get to see that 1453 01:00:59,220 --> 01:00:57,610 stuff now and you get to see where the 1454 01:01:02,910 --> 01:00:59,230 other negatives they have in cold 1455 01:01:04,650 --> 01:01:02,920 storage they have a vault which is 1456 01:01:07,590 --> 01:01:04,660 climate control I think it's like 40 1457 01:01:10,380 --> 01:01:07,600 degrees because they discover that the 1458 01:01:12,060 --> 01:01:10,390 negatives that they had were beginning 1459 01:01:14,580 --> 01:01:12,070 to deteriorate and say put him into 1460 01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:14,590 built this four million dollar vault to 1461 01:01:19,830 --> 01:01:17,040 store all this stuff and they had 1462 01:01:21,150 --> 01:01:19,840 literally tens of thousands of 1463 01:01:23,550 --> 01:01:21,160 photographs that came from the Fort 1464 01:01:25,530 --> 01:01:23,560 Worth star-telegram which was a bit 1465 01:01:27,570 --> 01:01:25,540 which was is the big new a big newspaper 1466 01:01:29,460 --> 01:01:27,580 in Fort Worth so they had all those 1467 01:01:32,940 --> 01:01:29,470 photographs and everybody everybody 1468 01:01:34,830 --> 01:01:32,950 focuses on this this one little deal of 1469 01:01:37,170 --> 01:01:34,840 the Ramey memo but they've got 1470 01:01:40,110 --> 01:01:37,180 photographs going back into the 19th 1471 01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:40,120 century and some really fascinating 1472 01:01:45,060 --> 01:01:41,920 stuff there that goes just beyond 1473 01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:45,070 Roswell but the case and and the segment 1474 01:01:49,890 --> 01:01:48,610 I was in while I did I did a an 1475 01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:49,900 interview and we talked about other 1476 01:01:54,210 --> 01:01:52,210 aspects of the Roswell case as well so 1477 01:01:55,530 --> 01:01:54,220 it's a long thing I think they I think 1478 01:01:57,480 --> 01:01:55,540 they talked to Don Schmitt and Tom 1479 01:01:59,700 --> 01:01:57,490 Carrie and I don't know who all they 1480 01:02:01,530 --> 01:01:59,710 they talked to them ourselves and they 1481 01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:01,540 were out at the Museum and they were out 1482 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:04,930 at the the site where the thing where 1483 01:02:10,710 --> 01:02:07,930 Bill Brazel identified the debris field 1484 01:02:12,810 --> 01:02:10,720 for Don and me and I say it that way 1485 01:02:14,010 --> 01:02:12,820 because people said well you guys didn't 1486 01:02:15,870 --> 01:02:14,020 really know where the debris field was 1487 01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:15,880 and I'm thinking you know Bill Brazel 1488 01:02:22,020 --> 01:02:18,610 took you out there I'm pretty sure I got 1489 01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:22,030 to the right place you know the guy had 1490 01:02:25,890 --> 01:02:24,010 seen it he'd been out there I'm pretty 1491 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:25,900 sure we're on the right section in New 1492 01:02:32,490 --> 01:02:30,010 Mexico desert so yeah yeah well one of 1493 01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:32,500 the one of the things I I saw that you 1494 01:02:36,490 --> 01:02:33,690 had in 1495 01:02:39,170 --> 01:02:36,500 it's a chapter in the book is the Heflin 1496 01:02:40,610 --> 01:02:39,180 photo or photographs I think there were 1497 01:02:43,790 --> 01:02:40,620 three of them 1498 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:43,800 now let me just ask you this in for the 1499 01:02:49,940 --> 01:02:46,410 YouTube person on YouTube I just put a 1500 01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:49,950 picture up there of it I have been told 1501 01:02:54,890 --> 01:02:53,760 by someone that that was a hoax do you 1502 01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:54,900 know anything about that 1503 01:03:03,170 --> 01:03:00,240 of course well well you get to any any 1504 01:03:04,420 --> 01:03:03,180 good photograph and the skeptical 1505 01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:04,430 community when they run out of 1506 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:06,960 explanations it's a hoax yeah 1507 01:03:13,130 --> 01:03:10,050 and oftentimes the hoax explanation is 1508 01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:13,140 appended to it based on some really 1509 01:03:19,100 --> 01:03:17,370 shaky stuff that I think the roads the 1510 01:03:22,460 --> 01:03:19,110 roads photographs are hoaxes because 1511 01:03:24,830 --> 01:03:22,470 they didn't like his panoramic research 1512 01:03:26,900 --> 01:03:24,840 laboratory in his backyard and calling 1513 01:03:28,820 --> 01:03:26,910 himself the director or the chief 1514 01:03:30,860 --> 01:03:28,830 engineer or something and they didn't 1515 01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:30,870 like the fact that he didn't have a real 1516 01:03:35,450 --> 01:03:33,330 job like other people do he was a 1517 01:03:37,790 --> 01:03:35,460 musician and I'm thinking he's playing 1518 01:03:40,610 --> 01:03:37,800 piano on a bar playing piano is a really 1519 01:03:42,410 --> 01:03:40,620 tough thing to do and yet he holds all 1520 01:03:43,970 --> 01:03:42,420 these patent the old patents which he 1521 01:03:46,100 --> 01:03:43,980 was making money on and that sort of 1522 01:03:48,380 --> 01:03:46,110 thing but they smeared him because he 1523 01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:48,390 had a he claimed to have a PhD from 1524 01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:51,930 Columbia and he had a little tiny wallet 1525 01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:54,930 side card that had that on there and I 1526 01:03:57,830 --> 01:03:56,610 think that the way that all came about 1527 01:04:02,510 --> 01:03:57,840 you're gonna have to excuse me for a 1528 01:04:04,580 --> 01:04:02,520 moment is that when he went into the 1529 01:04:06,500 --> 01:04:04,590 Navy or was it working with the Navy is 1530 01:04:08,330 --> 01:04:06,510 a failure working for the Navy they 1531 01:04:10,340 --> 01:04:08,340 realized in their research section they 1532 01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:10,350 didn't have a lot of guys with PhDs or 1533 01:04:13,730 --> 01:04:11,730 master's degrees and that sort of thing 1534 01:04:15,980 --> 01:04:13,740 and what they did was they created a 1535 01:04:19,610 --> 01:04:15,990 program of giving them equivalency 1536 01:04:21,590 --> 01:04:19,620 degrees and you took this complex test 1537 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:21,600 and if you scored well enough well then 1538 01:04:25,460 --> 01:04:23,370 you had the equivalent of a bachelor's 1539 01:04:27,050 --> 01:04:25,470 degree score higher you got a master's 1540 01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:27,060 degree and if you scored at the top you 1541 01:04:34,580 --> 01:04:28,890 got the equivalency of a PhD and of 1542 01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:34,590 course Rhodes scored at the top I don't 1543 01:04:38,690 --> 01:04:36,960 know he had that little card Columbia 1544 01:04:41,270 --> 01:04:38,700 doesn't seem to know anything about it 1545 01:04:43,550 --> 01:04:41,280 but he had that card he was and he 1546 01:04:45,260 --> 01:04:43,560 talked about the equivalency in a couple 1547 01:04:47,130 --> 01:04:45,270 of times so you know I 1548 01:04:49,699 --> 01:04:47,140 they decided because of that 1549 01:04:52,529 --> 01:04:49,709 he claimed to have a PhD he was he was 1550 01:04:54,449 --> 01:04:52,539 hoaxing it with hopefully no it's kind 1551 01:04:57,719 --> 01:04:54,459 of the same thing because he talked 1552 01:04:59,849 --> 01:04:57,729 about two guys from Norway and I think 1553 01:05:01,890 --> 01:04:59,859 it was coming down to ask for the 1554 01:05:03,209 --> 01:05:01,900 photographs the original photographs and 1555 01:05:04,859 --> 01:05:03,219 he gave them to him so the original 1556 01:05:06,989 --> 01:05:04,869 photographs disappeared for a long 1557 01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:06,999 period of time and the air force was 1558 01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:08,410 saying well NORAD wouldn't have been 1559 01:05:13,109 --> 01:05:11,170 involved in the investigation ergo he's 1560 01:05:17,489 --> 01:05:13,119 made this story up and it's a hoax 1561 01:05:20,670 --> 01:05:17,499 then as I think round saucer watching 1562 01:05:23,339 --> 01:05:20,680 Hayden Hughes I believe did a computer 1563 01:05:25,319 --> 01:05:23,349 analysis of the photographs on one of 1564 01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:25,329 the photographs and he found a line on 1565 01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:27,130 it and he suggested this line in the 1566 01:05:34,979 --> 01:05:29,650 computer enhancement suggests it was 1567 01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:34,989 something suspended above the truck it 1568 01:05:38,969 --> 01:05:37,450 was reinvestigated later yeah and that 1569 01:05:40,559 --> 01:05:38,979 cover all of this in detail in the book 1570 01:05:42,690 --> 01:05:40,569 if you really I mean if people really 1571 01:05:45,269 --> 01:05:42,700 want to get the details rather than just 1572 01:05:47,819 --> 01:05:45,279 kind of viewing it here but they talked 1573 01:05:50,430 --> 01:05:47,829 about getting the original photographs 1574 01:05:51,299 --> 01:05:50,440 back he was told yeah the dress right 1575 01:05:56,130 --> 01:05:51,309 was it 1576 01:05:57,749 --> 01:05:56,140 yeah and ruffled the unsubtle Heflin was 1577 01:05:59,699 --> 01:05:57,759 told to go out and look at his mailbox 1578 01:06:01,140 --> 01:05:59,709 he went out there was nothing there got 1579 01:06:02,430 --> 01:06:01,150 a call from the guy an hour later he 1580 01:06:04,589 --> 01:06:02,440 says go look at your mailbox and there 1581 01:06:07,219 --> 01:06:04,599 were the original photographs so draw 1582 01:06:09,180 --> 01:06:07,229 file and her team were able to 1583 01:06:10,739 --> 01:06:09,190 re-examine the photographs and they can 1584 01:06:13,739 --> 01:06:10,749 find no evidence of the string and they 1585 01:06:14,969 --> 01:06:13,749 in the and and they said that Hughes in 1586 01:06:16,170 --> 01:06:14,979 the ground saucer watch guys were 1587 01:06:19,589 --> 01:06:16,180 working from a third or fourth 1588 01:06:21,150 --> 01:06:19,599 generation print and that had been 1589 01:06:22,949 --> 01:06:21,160 creased and folded and that sort of 1590 01:06:28,469 --> 01:06:22,959 thing and the line was probably a 1591 01:06:30,390 --> 01:06:28,479 artifact from the way the print had been 1592 01:06:34,199 --> 01:06:30,400 handled and they could find no evidence 1593 01:06:36,809 --> 01:06:34,209 of it so I think we're back to the idea 1594 01:06:39,479 --> 01:06:36,819 that Heflin may have photographed 1595 01:06:44,370 --> 01:06:39,489 something really unusual there was other 1596 01:06:47,309 --> 01:06:44,380 evidence also that other guys working in 1597 01:06:49,859 --> 01:06:47,319 his department with the highway services 1598 01:06:51,329 --> 01:06:49,869 they had radio communications and they 1599 01:06:53,099 --> 01:06:51,339 were having radio communications when 1600 01:06:54,660 --> 01:06:53,109 this object was overhead radio 1601 01:06:56,039 --> 01:06:54,670 communications problems when the object 1602 01:06:58,920 --> 01:06:56,049 was overhead so there's additional 1603 01:07:00,350 --> 01:06:58,930 information and I I think you know you 1604 01:07:02,930 --> 01:07:00,360 move beyond the idea that 1605 01:07:06,410 --> 01:07:02,940 this is a hoax that Heflin dreamed up 1606 01:07:08,750 --> 01:07:06,420 himself that was them that's always a 1607 01:07:10,580 --> 01:07:08,760 fallback position if we cannot explain 1608 01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:10,590 it well then it's obviously a hoax yeah 1609 01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:12,810 I'm trying to remember who told me that 1610 01:07:19,130 --> 01:07:14,130 on this show 1611 01:07:20,930 --> 01:07:19,140 Alice truffle I tell ya is it I know but 1612 01:07:21,290 --> 01:07:20,940 I talked to the daughter Alice oh I'm 1613 01:07:23,540 --> 01:07:21,300 sorry 1614 01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:23,550 yeah and Alice told me that they still 1615 01:07:28,550 --> 01:07:25,170 have those they have the three pictures 1616 01:07:30,890 --> 01:07:28,560 in their safe in their house right now 1617 01:07:33,590 --> 01:07:30,900 so they still have those available these 1618 01:07:35,660 --> 01:07:33,600 are to explain it why don't we just 1619 01:07:38,780 --> 01:07:35,670 explain what happened there it was the 1620 01:07:41,510 --> 01:07:38,790 Polaroids right and it was a Salesman no 1621 01:07:44,780 --> 01:07:41,520 here's a work for the highway department 1622 01:07:47,780 --> 01:07:44,790 okay right driving down the road and saw 1623 01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:47,790 this strange object through the windows 1624 01:07:52,940 --> 01:07:51,090 of the of his truck and he managed to 1625 01:07:55,790 --> 01:07:52,950 take three Polaroid photographs of the 1626 01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:55,800 object as it flew over and then another 1627 01:07:59,960 --> 01:07:57,210 reason they thought it was a hoax is 1628 01:08:01,580 --> 01:07:59,970 later he showed them a fourth photograph 1629 01:08:03,140 --> 01:08:01,590 which was kind of a smoke-ring type 1630 01:08:04,910 --> 01:08:03,150 thing and they were all concerned at 1631 01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:04,920 that he he didn't show that photograph 1632 01:08:13,790 --> 01:08:07,530 up front for some reason I'm not sure 1633 01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:13,800 why but it's an object that hovered over 1634 01:08:20,150 --> 01:08:15,330 the area for a period of time he took 1635 01:08:22,910 --> 01:08:20,160 three very clear photographs of it there 1636 01:08:25,490 --> 01:08:22,920 was all sorts of analysis done and there 1637 01:08:26,510 --> 01:08:25,500 again in the UFO field pick the analysis 1638 01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:26,520 you like the best 1639 01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:29,040 and run with it because you there's 1640 01:08:32,150 --> 01:08:30,570 going to be an analysis that falls into 1641 01:08:33,740 --> 01:08:32,160 your own belief structure if you believe 1642 01:08:36,140 --> 01:08:33,750 there's no alien visitation there can't 1643 01:08:38,630 --> 01:08:36,150 be any UFOs then clearly it's a hoax and 1644 01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:38,640 there's photo analysis that will prove 1645 01:08:42,890 --> 01:08:41,010 that to you and if you accept alien 1646 01:08:46,220 --> 01:08:42,900 visitations and you believe they're UFOs 1647 01:08:49,970 --> 01:08:46,230 or flying saucers then this photograph 1648 01:08:52,849 --> 01:08:49,980 tends to support that that belief so you 1649 01:08:56,260 --> 01:08:52,859 can find the analysis that will support 1650 01:08:59,210 --> 01:08:56,270 that as well do you know if he was 1651 01:09:01,579 --> 01:08:59,220 interviewed you know and intensely 1652 01:09:03,740 --> 01:09:01,589 interviewed about this whole of this 1653 01:09:05,890 --> 01:09:03,750 whole situation he was interviewed a 1654 01:09:08,570 --> 01:09:05,900 number of times both by the military and 1655 01:09:12,020 --> 01:09:08,580 private UFO researchers I think Robert 1656 01:09:14,209 --> 01:09:12,030 would talk to him some years after the 1657 01:09:17,689 --> 01:09:14,219 event as well 1658 01:09:18,979 --> 01:09:17,699 you know he was he was interviewed by a 1659 01:09:21,769 --> 01:09:18,989 lot of people it didn't cause him any 1660 01:09:24,490 --> 01:09:21,779 any aggravation at work I don't think I 1661 01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:24,500 know police officers who are involved in 1662 01:09:31,189 --> 01:09:27,449 UFO chases and UFO sightings often found 1663 01:09:34,970 --> 01:09:31,199 themselves ridiculed and harassed out of 1664 01:09:36,860 --> 01:09:34,980 their jobs actually but I don't think 1665 01:09:39,470 --> 01:09:36,870 that that happened I think he he went on 1666 01:09:41,749 --> 01:09:39,480 retired from his job there but this was 1667 01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:41,759 in what El Alto de near the El Toro 1668 01:09:48,829 --> 01:09:45,210 Marine base in Southern California I see 1669 01:09:51,169 --> 01:09:48,839 well did they did anyone ever try to say 1670 01:09:52,879 --> 01:09:51,179 it was a military you know secret 1671 01:09:55,070 --> 01:09:52,889 military project or anything like that 1672 01:09:56,780 --> 01:09:55,080 are you aware of nothing like that's not 1673 01:09:58,070 --> 01:09:56,790 yeah it had it been a secret military 1674 01:09:59,810 --> 01:09:58,080 project back when he took the 1675 01:10:02,390 --> 01:09:59,820 photographs in the nineteen sixties you 1676 01:10:03,830 --> 01:10:02,400 would think that you know we we would 1677 01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:03,840 already know what it is we'd say well 1678 01:10:07,580 --> 01:10:05,489 here here's what it really was 1679 01:10:09,020 --> 01:10:07,590 yeah and that's that's never happened 1680 01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:09,030 with this these particular sets of 1681 01:10:12,950 --> 01:10:12,090 photographs yeah so yeah and that's the 1682 01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:12,960 other thing you know when you look at 1683 01:10:17,870 --> 01:10:15,449 the older cases and they say well it was 1684 01:10:19,970 --> 01:10:17,880 a military secret yeah what sort of 1685 01:10:24,590 --> 01:10:19,980 technology was available 50 years ago 1686 01:10:26,180 --> 01:10:24,600 that is now obsolete that we don't know 1687 01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:26,190 about gee whiz we know about the b-2 1688 01:10:35,149 --> 01:10:32,010 bomber in the f-117 which were highly 1689 01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:35,159 classified projects in the late 80s 1690 01:10:41,149 --> 01:10:38,010 early 90s and now we've got photographs 1691 01:10:44,660 --> 01:10:41,159 of them and we know exactly what they're 1692 01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:44,670 what they look like so you know that I 1693 01:10:50,060 --> 01:10:46,650 can't think of a project that would be 1694 01:10:53,899 --> 01:10:50,070 still be classified at this late date 1695 01:10:57,050 --> 01:10:53,909 that wouldn't have been wouldn't be 1696 01:10:58,220 --> 01:10:57,060 obsolete now based on the advancement of 1697 01:11:01,669 --> 01:10:58,230 our technology because we're talking 1698 01:11:03,379 --> 01:11:01,679 about 1960s and a Polaroid camera which 1699 01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:03,389 for those of you who do not know 1700 01:11:06,379 --> 01:11:05,130 Polaroid camera was the deal you took 1701 01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:06,389 the picture and it slid out of the 1702 01:11:11,209 --> 01:11:08,370 camera and it developed in 60 seconds 1703 01:11:13,189 --> 01:11:11,219 you didn't have to go to a photo shop to 1704 01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:13,199 get it which is of course digital 1705 01:11:18,620 --> 01:11:16,770 cameras are much better now much better 1706 01:11:20,209 --> 01:11:18,630 than what not to saying a Polaroid was 1707 01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:20,219 digital it actually had film and 1708 01:11:26,450 --> 01:11:22,050 negatives and all of that stuff yeah 1709 01:11:27,649 --> 01:11:26,460 yeah all right so let's just I want to 1710 01:11:29,450 --> 01:11:27,659 switch to a different 1711 01:11:32,899 --> 01:11:29,460 case was that actually close to home for 1712 01:11:34,790 --> 01:11:32,909 me I've lived in the area quite a while 1713 01:11:37,879 --> 01:11:34,800 and that's chapter 13 you talk about the 1714 01:11:39,830 --> 01:11:37,889 Exeter the Exeter New Hampshire siding 1715 01:11:42,319 --> 01:11:39,840 and I'm interested to know what project 1716 01:11:43,399 --> 01:11:42,329 Bluebook had to say about that well it's 1717 01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:43,409 in the book you should read the book 1718 01:11:49,879 --> 01:11:45,510 darkness inches high I know I've cut the 1719 01:11:52,100 --> 01:11:49,889 book yeah I will I just didn't get a 1720 01:11:53,810 --> 01:11:52,110 chance and I and I and I looked at what 1721 01:11:57,020 --> 01:11:53,820 the Air Force had to say about it and 1722 01:12:00,979 --> 01:11:57,030 where all of that went and I think what 1723 01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:00,989 you look at you see that it's not just a 1724 01:12:06,410 --> 01:12:04,010 single witness case the Air Force 1725 01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:06,420 glommed on to the ionization of the 1726 01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:09,449 atmosphere explanation which Philip 1727 01:12:13,609 --> 01:12:11,610 Glass invented because of the Exorcist 1728 01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:13,619 Exeter sighting saying that the 1729 01:12:17,569 --> 01:12:15,210 electrical discharges from these high 1730 01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:17,579 tension wines would ionize the air and 1731 01:12:21,979 --> 01:12:19,650 that creates these big glowing balls of 1732 01:12:24,379 --> 01:12:21,989 gas and anybody who's lived around high 1733 01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:24,389 tension lines no that's really true by 1734 01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:26,730 the way that was sarcasm 1735 01:12:31,370 --> 01:12:29,520 and the Air Force the Air Force jumped 1736 01:12:32,899 --> 01:12:31,380 on to that explanation but you get down 1737 01:12:34,850 --> 01:12:32,909 to it and you've got police officers 1738 01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:34,860 involved you've got multiple witnesses 1739 01:12:38,959 --> 01:12:36,770 you've got not just the guy seeing it 1740 01:12:42,319 --> 01:12:38,969 and becoming frightened you've got a 1741 01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:42,329 police officer who who in the before the 1742 01:12:47,180 --> 01:12:44,880 guy showed up at the police station he'd 1743 01:12:49,220 --> 01:12:47,190 found a woman sitting in her car that 1744 01:12:50,660 --> 01:12:49,230 overpass was very upset and said that 1745 01:12:54,020 --> 01:12:50,670 this flying saucer had been following 1746 01:12:55,490 --> 01:12:54,030 her and he got her calmed down and sent 1747 01:12:57,109 --> 01:12:55,500 her on her way and magus the police 1748 01:12:59,000 --> 01:12:57,119 station here this guy comes in and he's 1749 01:13:00,410 --> 01:12:59,010 upset talking about flying saucers again 1750 01:13:03,290 --> 01:13:00,420 so they go out to the area where he'd 1751 01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:03,300 seen the flying saucer and they see it 1752 01:13:07,459 --> 01:13:05,489 in the distance another police officer 1753 01:13:09,910 --> 01:13:07,469 shows up and they and he sees it as well 1754 01:13:12,109 --> 01:13:09,920 as they've been glowing masked near this 1755 01:13:14,629 --> 01:13:12,119 over this house and by these high 1756 01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:14,639 tension lines and that became the 1757 01:13:17,899 --> 01:13:16,530 explanation for the air force at high 1758 01:13:19,669 --> 01:13:17,909 tension lines but it was a series of 1759 01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:19,679 sightings by a number of people over a 1760 01:13:27,979 --> 01:13:23,250 period of time that was quite complex 1761 01:13:31,819 --> 01:13:27,989 I talked to a physicist and it was on a 1762 01:13:32,540 --> 01:13:31,829 different case about this ionization of 1763 01:13:37,129 --> 01:13:32,550 the atmosphere 1764 01:13:38,870 --> 01:13:37,139 I think after class class made that 1765 01:13:41,209 --> 01:13:38,880 explanation I think he revealed the 1766 01:13:43,130 --> 01:13:41,219 explanation and Aviation Week week 1767 01:13:44,959 --> 01:13:43,140 space technology which was a magazine he 1768 01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:44,969 was in a senior editor for Stephen 1769 01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:47,850 senior aviation at her four talked about 1770 01:13:50,870 --> 01:13:49,290 that and he put that explanation out 1771 01:13:52,490 --> 01:13:50,880 there in the atmospheric physicist and 1772 01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:52,500 the physicist just came down heavily I'm 1773 01:13:57,770 --> 01:13:54,810 sad ain't gonna be away but I called a 1774 01:13:59,630 --> 01:13:57,780 physicist about that he was talking to 1775 01:14:01,520 --> 01:13:59,640 him about the the object that was seen 1776 01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:01,530 over Minot North the South Dakota I 1777 01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:02,250 might not 1778 01:14:11,959 --> 01:14:09,449 again the Air Force said it was an 1779 01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:11,969 ionization of the atmosphere and I 1780 01:14:14,900 --> 01:14:13,290 talked to about that he said well don't 1781 01:14:17,420 --> 01:14:14,910 you think that if that was true we'd be 1782 01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:17,430 seeing those all over the place and what 1783 01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:19,650 became clear yeah there is an ion the 1784 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:21,090 ionization does take place in the 1785 01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:23,250 atmosphere but the problem is it doesn't 1786 01:14:28,010 --> 01:14:25,530 glow unless it's acted on by some other 1787 01:14:31,610 --> 01:14:28,020 mechanism so you might have this 1788 01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:31,620 ionization that might affect radar in 1789 01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:34,320 the way a temperature inversion would 1790 01:14:38,630 --> 01:14:36,210 affect radar but people aren't going to 1791 01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:38,640 be able to see it it doesn't naturally 1792 01:14:44,229 --> 01:14:42,690 glow and so the Air Force explanation 1793 01:14:46,189 --> 01:14:44,239 that these guys are seeing these glowing 1794 01:14:48,979 --> 01:14:46,199 ionization of the atmosphere just 1795 01:14:52,610 --> 01:14:48,989 doesn't work because they just don't 1796 01:14:54,140 --> 01:14:52,620 normally glow and but that was that was 1797 01:14:56,870 --> 01:14:54,150 kind of the Air Force explanation for 1798 01:14:58,100 --> 01:14:56,880 the whole case but I was able to take it 1799 01:15:00,920 --> 01:14:58,110 beyond that and find additional 1800 01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:00,930 witnesses I think it's John Fuller's 1801 01:15:06,890 --> 01:15:04,890 book incident Exeter I think it was does 1802 01:15:08,780 --> 01:15:06,900 a real nice job of laying some of the 1803 01:15:11,090 --> 01:15:08,790 evidence out in greater detail than I I 1804 01:15:13,310 --> 01:15:11,100 do in this book but you know I've got 1805 01:15:17,090 --> 01:15:13,320 the I got the basics down there and the 1806 01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:17,100 explanations and as I say my mine is 1807 01:15:21,740 --> 01:15:19,170 based on the Air Force file and then the 1808 01:15:25,970 --> 01:15:21,750 later information that people like John 1809 01:15:27,709 --> 01:15:25,980 fuller was able to to find you know and 1810 01:15:30,110 --> 01:15:27,719 Jerry Clark has done a wonderful job of 1811 01:15:31,490 --> 01:15:30,120 explaining that in his UFO encyclopedia 1812 01:15:34,340 --> 01:15:31,500 and there's a lot of other information 1813 01:15:36,709 --> 01:15:34,350 out there and various sources that you 1814 01:15:38,570 --> 01:15:36,719 know you can draw upon to you just kind 1815 01:15:41,420 --> 01:15:38,580 of collected all of that information and 1816 01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:41,430 consolidated it into into the book right 1817 01:15:47,540 --> 01:15:43,890 I haven't heard much from Jerry Clark in 1818 01:15:49,370 --> 01:15:47,550 in a while I know he hasn't written a 1819 01:15:51,979 --> 01:15:49,380 book in a long time but he was really 1820 01:15:53,780 --> 01:15:51,989 good he did some really good work well 1821 01:15:54,839 --> 01:15:53,790 his is if you're gonna be a UFO 1822 01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:54,849 researcher you 1823 01:16:00,179 --> 01:15:57,090 we have to have the UFO encyclopedia 1824 01:16:01,949 --> 01:16:00,189 that he did the problem is it's really 1825 01:16:05,489 --> 01:16:01,959 pricey it's like you know a couple of 1826 01:16:09,270 --> 01:16:05,499 hundred dollars Wow and yeah but it's 1827 01:16:10,580 --> 01:16:09,280 it's it's just so comprehensive and I'm 1828 01:16:16,770 --> 01:16:10,590 astonished at some of the stuff that 1829 01:16:19,349 --> 01:16:16,780 isn't in there but but in the third 1830 01:16:22,199 --> 01:16:19,359 edition that he just completed a couple 1831 01:16:23,639 --> 01:16:22,209 of years ago he said because of the 1832 01:16:25,529 --> 01:16:23,649 constraints placed on him by the 1833 01:16:30,569 --> 01:16:25,539 publisher he had to leave some stuff out 1834 01:16:32,310 --> 01:16:30,579 that he wanted to get in there so but 1835 01:16:34,049 --> 01:16:32,320 but it's a wonderful research tool for 1836 01:16:36,419 --> 01:16:34,059 anybody who's doing UFO research you've 1837 01:16:38,069 --> 01:16:36,429 got to have a copy of that book of those 1838 01:16:41,279 --> 01:16:38,079 books it's two volumes you've got to 1839 01:16:43,049 --> 01:16:41,289 have that because that's that's a good 1840 01:16:46,259 --> 01:16:43,059 basis to start and like I said I 1841 01:16:47,159 --> 01:16:46,269 borrowed from him the idea in in the 1842 01:16:49,169 --> 01:16:47,169 best project Bluebook 1843 01:16:52,229 --> 01:16:49,179 at the end of each chapter I put a list 1844 01:16:54,599 --> 01:16:52,239 of the sources yeah and then I borrowed 1845 01:16:56,549 --> 01:16:54,609 that idea from him because in his UFO 1846 01:16:59,099 --> 01:16:56,559 encyclopedia after you get done with 1847 01:17:01,679 --> 01:16:59,109 reading the article there's a long list 1848 01:17:02,729 --> 01:17:01,689 of sources suppose sometimes it's a very 1849 01:17:05,759 --> 01:17:02,739 short list because there's not a lot of 1850 01:17:08,359 --> 01:17:05,769 sources but a very detailed list of 1851 01:17:10,889 --> 01:17:08,369 sources and then there's a massive 1852 01:17:13,709 --> 01:17:10,899 bibliography at the end with all of that 1853 01:17:15,659 --> 01:17:13,719 stuff in it as well but it's just a an 1854 01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:15,669 absolute must-have research tool for 1855 01:17:20,549 --> 01:17:18,489 anybody doing UFO research right yeah oh 1856 01:17:22,469 --> 01:17:20,559 yeah he's a multi-talented guy - I think 1857 01:17:26,399 --> 01:17:22,479 he writes music or something like that I 1858 01:17:30,989 --> 01:17:26,409 wanted to also published oh really 1859 01:17:33,330 --> 01:17:30,999 Wow yes yeah we are opening the lines 1860 01:17:36,149 --> 01:17:33,340 right now for calls and if you're over 1861 01:17:38,099 --> 01:17:36,159 at kgr a radio and write this down 1862 01:17:39,989 --> 01:17:38,109 that's eight five five four seven two 1863 01:17:42,089 --> 01:17:39,999 five four eight three it's up on the 1864 01:17:44,699 --> 01:17:42,099 screen if you're on youtube and we are 1865 01:17:50,819 --> 01:17:44,709 taking calls and race we'll be standing 1866 01:17:53,189 --> 01:17:50,829 by to screen your call so let's see we 1867 01:17:55,589 --> 01:17:53,199 have a you have a lot of different ones 1868 01:17:58,679 --> 01:17:55,599 that you have looked into and I'm I know 1869 01:18:01,619 --> 01:17:58,689 that the McMinnville one I don't see you 1870 01:18:03,779 --> 01:18:01,629 don't have that one in here but there is 1871 01:18:06,419 --> 01:18:03,789 there's question about that photograph - 1872 01:18:08,279 --> 01:18:06,429 and I always you know I hear these 1873 01:18:10,709 --> 01:18:08,289 things through different people 1874 01:18:14,069 --> 01:18:10,719 and I just wanted to get your quick 1875 01:18:16,079 --> 01:18:14,079 opinion on that the problem we have is 1876 01:18:17,849 --> 01:18:16,089 we have a and I really don't want to say 1877 01:18:21,119 --> 01:18:17,859 skeptical community because it's really 1878 01:18:23,429 --> 01:18:21,129 not skeptics it's debunkers who believe 1879 01:18:25,739 --> 01:18:23,439 there is absolutely no alien visitation 1880 01:18:28,049 --> 01:18:25,749 era go any that suggests otherwise must 1881 01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:28,059 be a hoax you know so you've got the 1882 01:18:32,099 --> 01:18:30,010 pictures at McMinnville which have to be 1883 01:18:34,949 --> 01:18:32,109 a hoax because there's no other 1884 01:18:36,899 --> 01:18:34,959 explanation for him I thought I had done 1885 01:18:41,579 --> 01:18:36,909 in a in a different book I thought I had 1886 01:18:44,159 --> 01:18:41,589 done a fairly neutral job of recounting 1887 01:18:45,239 --> 01:18:44,169 this stuff and who one guy pointed out 1888 01:18:46,739 --> 01:18:45,249 to me that turned out to be very 1889 01:18:48,299 --> 01:18:46,749 negative I didn't think it was negative 1890 01:18:49,949 --> 01:18:48,309 at all but yeah then there's the idea 1891 01:18:54,359 --> 01:18:49,959 that so hoaxes but I just can't see 1892 01:18:57,959 --> 01:18:54,369 these these people in McMinnville Oregon 1893 01:19:00,599 --> 01:18:57,969 the farmer and his wife creating this 1894 01:19:02,909 --> 01:19:00,609 hoax right they just didn't seem 1895 01:19:04,739 --> 01:19:02,919 sophisticated enough to do that sort of 1896 01:19:07,049 --> 01:19:04,749 thing you know let's make a UFO site 1897 01:19:09,959 --> 01:19:07,059 let's make a UFO hoax now if we were in 1898 01:19:13,979 --> 01:19:09,969 2020 and this came up I'd say yeah it's 1899 01:19:17,159 --> 01:19:13,989 is very possible because of what we can 1900 01:19:18,839 --> 01:19:17,169 do but this is 1950 yeah and people 1901 01:19:23,009 --> 01:19:18,849 don't understand how to make double 1902 01:19:25,349 --> 01:19:23,019 exposures or how to how to create images 1903 01:19:27,119 --> 01:19:25,359 on the film that aren't really in the 1904 01:19:29,069 --> 01:19:27,129 sky around them and that sort of thing 1905 01:19:32,279 --> 01:19:29,079 and so I just can't see that a farmer 1906 01:19:37,349 --> 01:19:32,289 and his wife would have come up with 1907 01:19:39,839 --> 01:19:37,359 this this explanation and then once they 1908 01:19:41,309 --> 01:19:39,849 got the photographs back and saw that 1909 01:19:43,409 --> 01:19:41,319 they turned out really really well 1910 01:19:45,659 --> 01:19:43,419 didn't them didn't immediately take him 1911 01:19:48,779 --> 01:19:45,669 to the news media didn't do that a 1912 01:19:51,569 --> 01:19:48,789 friend of theirs found saw happen to see 1913 01:19:53,219 --> 01:19:51,579 the the the presence in the house and 1914 01:19:55,259 --> 01:19:53,229 said they should take it to the 1915 01:19:56,729 --> 01:19:55,269 newspaper which they eventually did I 1916 01:19:58,379 --> 01:19:56,739 mean it wasn't like well we've got this 1917 01:19:59,399 --> 01:19:58,389 great hoax story let now let's take it 1918 01:20:02,849 --> 01:19:59,409 to the newspaper because we know the 1919 01:20:04,500 --> 01:20:02,859 photographs turned out I just don't like 1920 01:20:05,939 --> 01:20:04,510 the hoax explanation appended to 1921 01:20:07,799 --> 01:20:05,949 everything there may be another 1922 01:20:11,549 --> 01:20:07,809 explanation for it but there seems to be 1923 01:20:13,109 --> 01:20:11,559 stuff in there that in in the story that 1924 01:20:14,279 --> 01:20:13,119 they tell in the way it was told oh one 1925 01:20:16,349 --> 01:20:14,289 of the one of the reasons they said it 1926 01:20:19,079 --> 01:20:16,359 was a hoax I believe as they were 1927 01:20:21,229 --> 01:20:19,089 looking at the shadows on the garage 1928 01:20:23,779 --> 01:20:21,239 under the eaves of the 1929 01:20:25,970 --> 01:20:23,789 and they said the photos were taken not 1930 01:20:27,290 --> 01:20:25,980 taken close together they were taken 20 1931 01:20:29,930 --> 01:20:27,300 or 30 minutes apart and they weren't 1932 01:20:32,029 --> 01:20:29,940 taken in the order of the glass son yeah 1933 01:20:34,819 --> 01:20:32,039 something now the Sun and the shadows 1934 01:20:38,870 --> 01:20:34,829 under that and you know it's all that 1935 01:20:41,299 --> 01:20:38,880 kind of detail yeah yeah oh we got we 1936 01:20:46,239 --> 01:20:41,309 got someone on line one 1937 01:20:50,029 --> 01:20:46,249 I believe it's V Paul is it Paul hi Nick 1938 01:20:53,509 --> 01:20:50,039 yeah thank you Paul great to hear you 1939 01:20:56,810 --> 01:20:55,640 they've all told me about the show Oh 1940 01:20:58,729 --> 01:20:56,820 excellent 1941 01:21:00,799 --> 01:20:58,739 well I have to tell you Paul I had so 1942 01:21:02,959 --> 01:21:00,809 much fun with you out in Phoenix back in 1943 01:21:05,319 --> 01:21:02,969 September I love your sense of humor 1944 01:21:08,390 --> 01:21:05,329 you're a lot of fun to hang around with 1945 01:21:12,229 --> 01:21:08,400 so I'm really by the way for the 1946 01:21:16,250 --> 01:21:12,239 listener this is Paul hi Nick and the 1947 01:21:17,959 --> 01:21:16,260 son of dr. J Allen Hynek who is on the 1948 01:21:19,189 --> 01:21:17,969 line right now I saw you in the chat 1949 01:21:23,529 --> 01:21:19,199 room earlier I was pretty excited about 1950 01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:23,539 that thanks for thanks for joining in 1951 01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:26,489 happy to be here and hello Kevin 1952 01:21:30,410 --> 01:21:28,800 hi pause waiting for a chance to jump in 1953 01:21:38,689 --> 01:21:30,420 have a chatted tip with you for a long 1954 01:21:41,020 --> 01:21:38,699 time yes your show yes yes well let let 1955 01:21:43,430 --> 01:21:41,030 me ask you a question since you're here 1956 01:21:44,839 --> 01:21:43,440 and I understand the constraints you 1957 01:21:46,850 --> 01:21:44,849 might be under but what do you think of 1958 01:21:49,230 --> 01:21:46,860 the new season going so far off the 1959 01:21:53,589 --> 01:21:49,240 rails how's that for a loaded question 1960 01:21:59,390 --> 01:21:53,599 [Laughter] 1961 01:22:01,549 --> 01:21:59,400 yeah I've never heard you being 1962 01:22:07,279 --> 01:22:01,559 considered to be on the rail so I think 1963 01:22:09,049 --> 01:22:07,289 it's going great okay 1964 01:22:14,149 --> 01:22:09,059 hey Paul did you have did you have a 1965 01:22:24,259 --> 01:22:14,159 question for Kevin you're just calling 1966 01:22:26,930 --> 01:22:24,269 in to say hi yeah well it's always it's 1967 01:22:29,450 --> 01:22:26,940 always great to hear from you and I'm 1968 01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:29,460 trying to remember what you said when 1969 01:22:34,069 --> 01:22:32,130 you were out you said that your dad had 1970 01:22:35,979 --> 01:22:34,079 the Van Allen belt was that was that 1971 01:22:41,930 --> 01:22:35,989 what it was 1972 01:22:46,670 --> 01:22:41,940 no I own a Van Allen belt that's right 1973 01:22:48,500 --> 01:22:46,680 it was actually Van Allen's belt well so 1974 01:22:51,110 --> 01:22:48,510 people understand what's going on here I 1975 01:22:52,790 --> 01:22:51,120 actually studied astronomy actually I 1976 01:22:54,620 --> 01:22:52,800 took a couple of courses in astronomy at 1977 01:22:57,350 --> 01:22:54,630 the University of Iowa and James Van 1978 01:22:59,240 --> 01:22:57,360 Allen was the they had determined at the 1979 01:23:02,140 --> 01:22:59,250 apartment of physics and astronomy so we 1980 01:23:05,270 --> 01:23:02,150 had we had him in a couple of classes 1981 01:23:06,979 --> 01:23:05,280 talking to us and he made it clear to us 1982 01:23:08,870 --> 01:23:06,989 that at the University of Iowa there are 1983 01:23:11,180 --> 01:23:08,880 no Van Allen belts except the ones that 1984 01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:11,190 hold up his pants he's talking about the 1985 01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:13,170 radiation belts around the earth so at 1986 01:23:16,070 --> 01:23:14,250 the University of Iowa that the 1987 01:23:21,620 --> 01:23:16,080 radiation belts the Van Allen belts hold 1988 01:23:24,590 --> 01:23:21,630 up his pants so so Paul you're at work 1989 01:23:26,780 --> 01:23:24,600 but and do you do a lot of since we have 1990 01:23:29,450 --> 01:23:26,790 you on the line you actually do quite a 1991 01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:29,460 bit of a consulting for of the TV series 1992 01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:42,930 right yeah yeah and and so far so good 1993 01:23:48,979 --> 01:23:46,410 you're you're okay with I know you 1994 01:23:51,410 --> 01:23:48,989 I do remember our conversation in last 1995 01:23:52,940 --> 01:23:51,420 September you mentioned something along 1996 01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:52,950 the lines where there was one thing you 1997 01:24:01,070 --> 01:23:54,330 weren't comfortable with and they 1998 01:24:05,750 --> 01:24:01,080 actually changed it for you right it was 1999 01:24:08,270 --> 01:24:05,760 in episode 6 of this season and it was 2000 01:24:11,030 --> 01:24:08,280 the one time where I felt that thing 2001 01:24:13,490 --> 01:24:11,040 heavensward things went off the rails 2002 01:24:15,140 --> 01:24:13,500 from a personal point of view and they 2003 01:24:19,420 --> 01:24:15,150 were very sensitive that they could make 2004 01:24:22,459 --> 01:24:19,430 the changes yeah that's good that's good 2005 01:24:24,380 --> 01:24:22,469 well great to hear from you Paul as 2006 01:24:26,660 --> 01:24:24,390 always and I'd love to get you back on 2007 01:24:28,459 --> 01:24:26,670 the show someday again it was it was a 2008 01:24:29,959 --> 01:24:28,469 lot of fun and last time you were 2009 01:24:32,900 --> 01:24:29,969 actually on the show you were on with 2010 01:24:36,350 --> 01:24:32,910 Calvin Parker both of you together that 2011 01:24:40,729 --> 01:24:36,360 was a lot of fun that's right my good 2012 01:24:43,010 --> 01:24:40,739 friend Calvin thank you take care all 2013 01:24:46,340 --> 01:24:43,020 right you two you take care thanks 2014 01:24:48,109 --> 01:24:46,350 thanks for calling in all right everyone 2015 01:24:51,020 --> 01:24:48,119 the lines are open once 2016 01:24:53,109 --> 01:24:51,030 again and that number is eight five five 2017 01:24:56,239 --> 01:24:53,119 four seven two five four eight three 2018 01:24:58,189 --> 01:24:56,249 Kevin uh I know again it's not in your 2019 01:25:00,979 --> 01:24:58,199 your-your-your book that just came out 2020 01:25:03,770 --> 01:25:00,989 but we have Palmer sent us a question 2021 01:25:06,229 --> 01:25:03,780 because of your military helicopter 2022 01:25:09,229 --> 01:25:06,239 experience wanted to know what your 2023 01:25:11,029 --> 01:25:09,239 opinion was on the coin case and I don't 2024 01:25:12,589 --> 01:25:11,039 know if you and I guess you have done a 2025 01:25:15,859 --> 01:25:12,599 lot of research into this at one time 2026 01:25:18,799 --> 01:25:15,869 but for the person that's new to UFOs in 2027 01:25:20,299 --> 01:25:18,809 general can you explain we don't have to 2028 01:25:22,339 --> 01:25:20,309 spend a lot of time on it but what what 2029 01:25:25,100 --> 01:25:22,349 went on and and what your thoughts are 2030 01:25:28,369 --> 01:25:25,110 about what went on we had a helicopter 2031 01:25:28,969 --> 01:25:28,379 crew flying a Huey helicopter near 2032 01:25:34,669 --> 01:25:28,979 Manvel 2033 01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:34,679 Ohio and encountered a UFO object bright 2034 01:25:39,649 --> 01:25:37,050 green object had I think red lights on 2035 01:25:43,639 --> 01:25:39,659 one end of it that sort of thing and as 2036 01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:43,649 they watched it come down past the 2037 01:25:48,799 --> 01:25:45,449 aircraft circle around behind and come 2038 01:25:50,119 --> 01:25:48,809 in from the from the other side and and 2039 01:25:52,399 --> 01:25:50,129 that's important to realize that the 2040 01:25:55,219 --> 01:25:52,409 object actually changed its its 2041 01:25:57,949 --> 01:25:55,229 direction a number of times and at one 2042 01:26:00,020 --> 01:25:57,959 point they thought they were going to 2043 01:26:03,649 --> 01:26:00,030 collide with this with this object and 2044 01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:03,659 it seemed to lift the helicopter up 2045 01:26:13,189 --> 01:26:09,090 physically and so that it I guess they 2046 01:26:14,810 --> 01:26:13,199 were excuse me I'm trying to replay the 2047 01:26:18,429 --> 01:26:14,820 scenario in my mind here what happened 2048 01:26:20,959 --> 01:26:18,439 was the object was coming close to them 2049 01:26:23,479 --> 01:26:20,969 and and thought they're going to come 2050 01:26:30,350 --> 01:26:23,489 collide coin put the collective which is 2051 01:26:32,060 --> 01:26:30,360 the control that controls altitude to 2052 01:26:35,209 --> 01:26:32,070 the full down position because he wanted 2053 01:26:38,479 --> 01:26:35,219 to avoid it and the object seemed to 2054 01:26:41,389 --> 01:26:38,489 lift them up and he was trying to stop 2055 01:26:42,919 --> 01:26:41,399 the climb so they wouldn't hit the hit 2056 01:26:44,779 --> 01:26:42,929 the object and have the collective down 2057 01:26:46,250 --> 01:26:44,789 to the full the collective in the full 2058 01:26:47,839 --> 01:26:46,260 down position and they continued to 2059 01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:47,849 climb up eventually there was some kind 2060 01:26:51,889 --> 01:26:50,010 of a bump and the object left and he 2061 01:26:55,489 --> 01:26:51,899 gained tree gain control of the of the 2062 01:27:00,439 --> 01:26:55,499 aircraft now one of the things that I 2063 01:27:02,810 --> 01:27:00,449 know that from from my experience as a 2064 01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:02,820 helicopter pilot 2065 01:27:07,700 --> 01:27:05,010 Philip Glass said well maybe maybe 2066 01:27:10,130 --> 01:27:07,710 Jessie who was the other pilot put the 2067 01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:10,140 collective down because he knew what was 2068 01:27:14,060 --> 01:27:12,210 going up on the collective Paul 2069 01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:14,070 accidentally pulled up on the collective 2070 01:27:18,440 --> 01:27:15,810 because he knew they were getting close 2071 01:27:20,570 --> 01:27:18,450 to the ground and and that was why they 2072 01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:20,580 were in this claim even though Coyne 2073 01:27:23,510 --> 01:27:21,690 thought the collective was pulled down 2074 01:27:25,430 --> 01:27:23,520 Jessie had pulled it up and that was why 2075 01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:25,440 they were in the climb and I said no 2076 01:27:30,020 --> 01:27:28,170 that was never happened because Coyne 2077 01:27:33,650 --> 01:27:30,030 and Jesse had the same training I did I 2078 01:27:35,030 --> 01:27:33,660 think coin.i he probably went through as 2079 01:27:36,530 --> 01:27:35,040 a commission to officer but about the 2080 01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:36,540 same time that I went through flight 2081 01:27:40,900 --> 01:27:38,130 school helicopter flight school the one 2082 01:27:43,940 --> 01:27:40,910 thing you were taught religiously is 2083 01:27:45,290 --> 01:27:43,950 you've got the controls in your hands if 2084 01:27:48,229 --> 01:27:45,300 the other pilot needs to take the 2085 01:27:49,790 --> 01:27:48,239 controls he'll say I've got it you feel 2086 01:27:50,570 --> 01:27:49,800 him on the controls you release and say 2087 01:27:53,390 --> 01:27:50,580 you've got it 2088 01:27:54,500 --> 01:27:53,400 you don't make a control change without 2089 01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:54,510 telling the other pilot what you're 2090 01:27:57,170 --> 01:27:55,770 doing otherwise you end up with the 2091 01:27:59,360 --> 01:27:57,180 pilots fighting each other for the 2092 01:28:01,250 --> 01:27:59,370 control of the aircraft so Jessie would 2093 01:28:03,050 --> 01:28:01,260 have never pulled up on the collective 2094 01:28:06,229 --> 01:28:03,060 to stop the descent that he thought they 2095 01:28:08,300 --> 01:28:06,239 were in had he not said something - I 2096 01:28:10,550 --> 01:28:08,310 was we had an experienced experience 2097 01:28:16,459 --> 01:28:10,560 like somewhat similar in in Vietnam 2098 01:28:17,990 --> 01:28:16,469 where I was flying the Eric I guess the 2099 01:28:21,020 --> 01:28:18,000 COPE I was flying the aircraft and he 2100 01:28:22,430 --> 01:28:21,030 put it into a sudden bank and a dive and 2101 01:28:24,260 --> 01:28:22,440 I started to reach for the curls I said 2102 01:28:26,030 --> 01:28:24,270 what's the problem I said he thought he 2103 01:28:27,380 --> 01:28:26,040 we were about to hit something but I 2104 01:28:29,090 --> 01:28:27,390 wasn't going to take the controls from 2105 01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:29,100 him and jerk him away from from that 2106 01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:31,170 because then you fight his controls had 2107 01:28:33,590 --> 01:28:32,610 I taken control I said I would have said 2108 01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:33,600 I've got it and he would have released 2109 01:28:38,450 --> 01:28:36,210 the controls but you and you do that 2110 01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:38,460 because the other pilot may see 2111 01:28:44,690 --> 01:28:41,570 something that would affect the aircraft 2112 01:28:46,430 --> 01:28:44,700 that you didn't see so he's taking 2113 01:28:48,350 --> 01:28:46,440 control to avoid some kind of an 2114 01:28:49,790 --> 01:28:48,360 accident or some kind of a problem so 2115 01:28:51,740 --> 01:28:49,800 that was one thing that struck me and I 2116 01:28:53,330 --> 01:28:51,750 know class said a lot of things in his 2117 01:28:54,709 --> 01:28:53,340 book and when he had analyzed the Quinn 2118 01:28:56,390 --> 01:28:54,719 case that I just didn't agree with he 2119 01:28:58,100 --> 01:28:56,400 said at one point well I have a friend 2120 01:28:59,840 --> 01:28:58,110 who's a helicopter pilot and he told me 2121 01:29:01,910 --> 01:28:59,850 this and that I'm thinking was he an 2122 01:29:03,260 --> 01:29:01,920 army helicopter pilot what he gone had 2123 01:29:04,610 --> 01:29:03,270 he gone through army helicopter school 2124 01:29:06,170 --> 01:29:04,620 was he riding in the back of the 2125 01:29:07,970 --> 01:29:06,180 aircraft was he actually flying the 2126 01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:07,980 aircraft how many hours did this guy 2127 01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:09,930 have didn't tell us anything about it in 2128 01:29:16,790 --> 01:29:12,719 class postulated the green collar was 2129 01:29:19,070 --> 01:29:16,800 based on a strip of green 2130 01:29:21,670 --> 01:29:19,080 glass at the top of the windshield of 2131 01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:21,680 the helicopter but they don't have green 2132 01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:24,210 tinted glass at the top of the aircraft 2133 01:29:27,650 --> 01:29:25,530 those of you who are old enough you 2134 01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:27,660 remember you cars used to come with his 2135 01:29:34,550 --> 01:29:31,610 green tin on the top of the windshields 2136 01:29:36,410 --> 01:29:34,560 to kind of mitigate the Sun but there 2137 01:29:37,670 --> 01:29:36,420 are two things and that Huey helicopter 2138 01:29:39,470 --> 01:29:37,680 right above the pilots head that we 2139 01:29:43,430 --> 01:29:39,480 called the greenhouses they were squares 2140 01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:43,440 of green Plexiglas and and but it's 2141 01:29:49,790 --> 01:29:45,810 right above the helicopter pilots head 2142 01:29:52,370 --> 01:29:49,800 it's not out the front so that had Coyne 2143 01:29:54,220 --> 01:29:52,380 been looking through the greenhouse to 2144 01:29:58,430 --> 01:29:54,230 see it he would have been had his head 2145 01:29:59,690 --> 01:29:58,440 tilted back and the inclination would 2146 01:30:01,400 --> 01:29:59,700 have been when you're looking like that 2147 01:30:03,140 --> 01:30:01,410 is to pull back on the cyclic which is 2148 01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:03,150 the other control in the helicopter I 2149 01:30:07,070 --> 01:30:05,010 think it's a very good case I don't 2150 01:30:08,570 --> 01:30:07,080 think there's a good explanation for it 2151 01:30:11,510 --> 01:30:08,580 I think that the things that people have 2152 01:30:13,820 --> 01:30:11,520 said about it don't understand 2153 01:30:16,010 --> 01:30:13,830 helicopter operations they don't 2154 01:30:18,170 --> 01:30:16,020 understand how what the training is of 2155 01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:18,180 the military pilots and they don't 2156 01:30:21,950 --> 01:30:20,250 really talk to military pilots about 2157 01:30:24,350 --> 01:30:21,960 that I can understand you saying well 2158 01:30:26,030 --> 01:30:24,360 coin said this that the other thing but 2159 01:30:27,620 --> 01:30:26,040 getting the opinion of another army 2160 01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:27,630 helicopter pilot is going to give you a 2161 01:30:33,110 --> 01:30:31,530 better perspective on what what coin was 2162 01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:33,120 thinking and what the other pilot jesse 2163 01:30:38,270 --> 01:30:34,770 was thinking is that the event took 2164 01:30:41,270 --> 01:30:38,280 place so do you think it was like lost 2165 01:30:43,190 --> 01:30:41,280 in translation the reason there's it's 2166 01:30:46,100 --> 01:30:43,200 it's so far off from what should have 2167 01:30:48,770 --> 01:30:46,110 really happened I don't think there's 2168 01:30:50,630 --> 01:30:48,780 any loss in translation I think the 2169 01:30:52,550 --> 01:30:50,640 problem is you've got you've got people 2170 01:30:54,530 --> 01:30:52,560 with agendas writing about various cases 2171 01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:54,540 and not just the coin case but a lot of 2172 01:30:59,120 --> 01:30:57,090 cases and they're injecting their bias 2173 01:31:01,220 --> 01:30:59,130 into it they're giving you yeah they're 2174 01:31:04,340 --> 01:31:01,230 they're cherry-picking the information 2175 01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:04,350 that's that confirms their point of view 2176 01:31:08,210 --> 01:31:06,090 they're their belief structure and the 2177 01:31:11,260 --> 01:31:08,220 rejecting information that does not and 2178 01:31:14,180 --> 01:31:11,270 I try to look at everything with a 2179 01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:14,190 dispassionate eye to see if we can get 2180 01:31:19,070 --> 01:31:16,650 toward the truth so when I read things 2181 01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:19,080 like what class had read written about 2182 01:31:25,700 --> 01:31:21,810 this I know it's I know it's just a lot 2183 01:31:27,010 --> 01:31:25,710 of garbage because I was trained the 2184 01:31:29,590 --> 01:31:27,020 same way and we 2185 01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:29,600 all trained that way so I understood 2186 01:31:34,510 --> 01:31:31,250 exactly what would have been going on in 2187 01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:34,520 the cockpit and class didn't understand 2188 01:31:37,420 --> 01:31:35,810 what was going on in the cockpit and 2189 01:31:40,420 --> 01:31:37,430 that's and that and that's you know 2190 01:31:42,550 --> 01:31:40,430 useful information that that you know I 2191 01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:42,560 can bring to these kind of cases I think 2192 01:31:46,090 --> 01:31:44,090 somebody trained in physics could be 2193 01:31:47,740 --> 01:31:46,100 bring some very good information to 2194 01:31:49,540 --> 01:31:47,750 other sorts of cases when we talk about 2195 01:31:51,730 --> 01:31:49,550 that or somebody trained trained in 2196 01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:51,740 chemical analysis when we get landing 2197 01:31:55,030 --> 01:31:53,210 traces and that sort of thing can bring 2198 01:31:57,630 --> 01:31:55,040 in their perspective to it that helps us 2199 01:32:00,280 --> 01:31:57,640 understand what is happening right right 2200 01:32:02,290 --> 01:32:00,290 one of the cases I wanted to talk about 2201 01:32:04,060 --> 01:32:02,300 because again I'm a like I mentioned 2202 01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:04,070 before I think it's really fascinating 2203 01:32:15,730 --> 01:32:10,810 is the 1952 Washington Nationals in July 2204 01:32:18,190 --> 01:32:15,740 1952 now there is the issue that happens 2205 01:32:20,410 --> 01:32:18,200 with that particular those particular I 2206 01:32:22,750 --> 01:32:20,420 guess it was more than one day more than 2207 01:32:25,210 --> 01:32:22,760 one night incidents is that people will 2208 01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:25,220 show these pictures of UFOs over 2209 01:32:31,180 --> 01:32:28,090 Washington and that is a false picture 2210 01:32:34,300 --> 01:32:31,190 because of the reflections of the lights 2211 01:32:35,500 --> 01:32:34,310 the street lights or something right you 2212 01:32:36,970 --> 01:32:35,510 know the picture I'm talking about I 2213 01:32:38,170 --> 01:32:36,980 know thinks you're talking about I'm not 2214 01:32:40,270 --> 01:32:38,180 sure it's a reflection the street lights 2215 01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:40,280 but the picture is clearly not of flying 2216 01:32:44,380 --> 01:32:42,290 saucers or UFOs yeah this picture is 2217 01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:44,390 folks yeah that's what I wanted to get 2218 01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:45,890 across to the listener because a lot of 2219 01:32:49,150 --> 01:32:47,810 people will research that see that 2220 01:32:50,860 --> 01:32:49,160 picture and think that's what they were 2221 01:32:53,650 --> 01:32:50,870 seeing but can you talk about what 2222 01:32:55,780 --> 01:32:53,660 actually did happen well it kind of 2223 01:32:57,400 --> 01:32:55,790 started with guys in the radar room at 2224 01:33:00,250 --> 01:32:57,410 Washington National Airport which is now 2225 01:33:02,020 --> 01:33:00,260 Reagan National Airport in seeing these 2226 01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:02,030 blips on the radar screen and they're 2227 01:33:06,460 --> 01:33:04,010 acting not the way normal aircraft do 2228 01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:06,470 they sometimes are moving very slowly 2229 01:33:10,270 --> 01:33:08,090 sometimes it accelerated I think one of 2230 01:33:12,250 --> 01:33:10,280 the calculations is 7,000 miles an hour 2231 01:33:15,340 --> 01:33:12,260 so they're watching this they're they're 2232 01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:15,350 communicating with the air or out 2233 01:33:20,650 --> 01:33:18,170 traffic air traffic control radars and 2234 01:33:22,870 --> 01:33:20,660 their canoe and they're talking to the 2235 01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:22,880 guys at Andrews Air Force Base there and 2236 01:33:26,770 --> 01:33:24,890 in their control room their radar room 2237 01:33:28,480 --> 01:33:26,780 and at one point you know they're seeing 2238 01:33:31,420 --> 01:33:28,490 the same objects on three separate 2239 01:33:34,570 --> 01:33:31,430 radars so if it's a malfunction of the 2240 01:33:35,350 --> 01:33:34,580 radars at Washington National well 2241 01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:35,360 you're not going to have the same 2242 01:33:39,220 --> 01:33:37,250 malfunction at the other radar 2243 01:33:39,729 --> 01:33:39,230 facilities and they check the radars and 2244 01:33:41,590 --> 01:33:39,739 did 2245 01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:41,600 kind of thing the devices check and they 2246 01:33:46,500 --> 01:33:43,730 can find no fault with the radars they 2247 01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:46,510 eventually called for error intercepts 2248 01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:49,130 and they launched they launched fighter 2249 01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:50,810 planes to come and check the area and 2250 01:33:56,170 --> 01:33:53,810 what they said was interesting both al 2251 01:33:57,970 --> 01:33:56,180 chopped and Dewey Forney who were in the 2252 01:34:00,220 --> 01:33:57,980 ranger radar room the second night told 2253 01:34:02,229 --> 01:34:00,230 me the same thing which was that when 2254 01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:02,239 the fighters appeared on the screens all 2255 01:34:07,030 --> 01:34:04,690 the UFOs disappeared as if they were 2256 01:34:09,459 --> 01:34:07,040 cloaking themselves or running away and 2257 01:34:13,390 --> 01:34:09,469 hiding and when the fighters disappeared 2258 01:34:16,209 --> 01:34:13,400 the the the blips came back there was 2259 01:34:18,820 --> 01:34:16,219 one point where a fighter pilot was 2260 01:34:20,620 --> 01:34:18,830 talking about he was trying to intercept 2261 01:34:28,300 --> 01:34:20,630 it and got surrounded by these lights he 2262 01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:28,310 never saw whoops I don't know what 2263 01:34:36,160 --> 01:34:31,130 happened the lights they were and they 2264 01:34:37,390 --> 01:34:36,170 said that uh uh you you you throat you 2265 01:34:40,810 --> 01:34:37,400 froze for a minute we couldn't hear you 2266 01:34:42,910 --> 01:34:40,820 talking oh I got a I got a connection 2267 01:34:45,610 --> 01:34:42,920 lost apparently we got it back yes we do 2268 01:34:47,350 --> 01:34:45,620 who likely well and we well we well 2269 01:34:49,300 --> 01:34:47,360 we're taking this little just let you 2270 01:34:54,070 --> 01:34:49,310 know we do have a caller on the line so 2271 01:34:55,750 --> 01:34:54,080 well yes so we had the one where the 2272 01:34:57,400 --> 01:34:55,760 fighter plane was surrounded by the 2273 01:34:59,080 --> 01:34:57,410 lights but there was another intercept 2274 01:35:00,700 --> 01:34:59,090 where they actually got a radar lock on 2275 01:35:02,110 --> 01:35:00,710 one of the targets from the aircraft so 2276 01:35:04,060 --> 01:35:02,120 now we've got four separate radars 2277 01:35:05,860 --> 01:35:04,070 involved in the sighting so it's a very 2278 01:35:07,510 --> 01:35:05,870 good sighting the Air Force said it was 2279 01:35:09,130 --> 01:35:07,520 temperature inversions end of story we 2280 01:35:11,860 --> 01:35:09,140 don't need to talk about it anymore but 2281 01:35:13,350 --> 01:35:11,870 if you take a look at the analysis in 2282 01:35:16,390 --> 01:35:13,360 the book you'll see where that 2283 01:35:18,070 --> 01:35:16,400 explanation seems to fall apart yeah 2284 01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:18,080 yeah I think that's a real fascinating 2285 01:35:24,490 --> 01:35:20,810 that whole thing is so fascinating and 2286 01:35:26,380 --> 01:35:24,500 the location of it and all we have Steve 2287 01:35:42,580 --> 01:35:26,390 calling from Oregon welcome to the show 2288 01:35:44,380 --> 01:35:42,590 Steve okay yeah we hear you okay fun 2289 01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:44,390 Roswell there seems like there's only 2290 01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:48,530 one real question and that is why did 2291 01:35:52,350 --> 01:35:51,650 the captain release the memo to the 2292 01:35:55,629 --> 01:35:52,360 press 2293 01:35:57,910 --> 01:35:55,639 what that fancy Devin's ever gotten it 2294 01:36:01,149 --> 01:35:57,920 to why the captain released the memo to 2295 01:36:02,500 --> 01:36:01,159 the press that was it wasn't a captain 2296 01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:02,510 it was the base commander Colonel 2297 01:36:06,459 --> 01:36:04,610 Blanchard who issued the press release 2298 01:36:08,890 --> 01:36:06,469 he did he did it 2299 01:36:11,350 --> 01:36:08,900 I have never figured out why he did that 2300 01:36:13,780 --> 01:36:11,360 what walter haut told me and walter haut 2301 01:36:15,010 --> 01:36:13,790 was the public affairs office here at 2302 01:36:16,629 --> 01:36:15,020 the time and he was the one that took 2303 01:36:18,010 --> 01:36:16,639 the information from Colonel Blanchard 2304 01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:18,020 and then walked it to the various media 2305 01:36:25,709 --> 01:36:21,130 that Colonel Blanchard was attempting to 2306 01:36:28,270 --> 01:36:25,719 explain what the UFOs were try to try to 2307 01:36:30,459 --> 01:36:28,280 tone down some of the discussion about 2308 01:36:33,040 --> 01:36:30,469 flying saucers at the time which 2309 01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:33,050 basically really makes no no sense I 2310 01:36:38,320 --> 01:36:36,170 don't know a real good reason why they 2311 01:36:42,220 --> 01:36:38,330 would have issued the press release it 2312 01:36:44,260 --> 01:36:42,230 just doesn't make any sense to me it it 2313 01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:44,270 went to the for media in Roswell and 2314 01:36:49,089 --> 01:36:46,010 maybe Blanchard didn't realize it was 2315 01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:49,099 going to go out over the Varia the AP 2316 01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:51,530 and the UPI wires so it would become 2317 01:36:56,709 --> 01:36:53,210 national news maybe he was just trying 2318 01:36:58,510 --> 01:36:56,719 to calm things down in the Roswell area 2319 01:37:00,189 --> 01:36:58,520 didn't realize how far it would would 2320 01:37:07,950 --> 01:37:00,199 spread or how quickly it would spread 2321 01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:07,960 but both George Walsh and and and and 2322 01:37:13,959 --> 01:37:11,210 and and and to Frank choice Frank Joyce 2323 01:37:16,180 --> 01:37:13,969 at the two radio stations immediately 2324 01:37:19,419 --> 01:37:16,190 put it on the wire Walsh got it out 2325 01:37:22,510 --> 01:37:19,429 first on the on his wire service because 2326 01:37:24,669 --> 01:37:22,520 he had a connection right there in his 2327 01:37:28,510 --> 01:37:24,679 office and Joyce had to call the office 2328 01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:28,520 in Albuquerque to have it sent out but 2329 01:37:33,910 --> 01:37:30,050 that was how it got out is those two 2330 01:37:35,379 --> 01:37:33,920 guys put it put it on the wire and maybe 2331 01:37:37,270 --> 01:37:35,389 Blanchard didn't expect that to happen 2332 01:37:39,160 --> 01:37:37,280 but I don't have a good answer for that 2333 01:37:40,899 --> 01:37:39,170 question I really don't I would liked it 2334 01:37:44,859 --> 01:37:40,909 I would have liked to had Blanchard that 2335 01:37:46,629 --> 01:37:44,869 question yeah I I've brought that up a 2336 01:37:47,830 --> 01:37:46,639 number of time hang on Steve just for a 2337 01:37:51,310 --> 01:37:47,840 second I've brought that up a number of 2338 01:37:53,050 --> 01:37:51,320 times on the show you know why why would 2339 01:37:56,560 --> 01:37:53,060 it come out at all they never had to say 2340 01:38:00,010 --> 01:37:56,570 basically anything and you know for them 2341 01:38:02,109 --> 01:38:00,020 to say there was a flying saucer doesn't 2342 01:38:04,120 --> 01:38:02,119 make any sense I mean if if they wanted 2343 01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:04,130 to hide it they could have said you know 2344 01:38:10,830 --> 01:38:05,930 weather balloon 2345 01:38:17,110 --> 01:38:14,110 now you said what I wanted to say it 2346 01:38:21,340 --> 01:38:17,120 just never made any sense okay well I 2347 01:38:23,410 --> 01:38:21,350 agree never made any sense but we don't 2348 01:38:25,060 --> 01:38:23,420 have a good explanation for what Fennell 2349 01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:25,070 at Roswell either we all agree something 2350 01:38:29,650 --> 01:38:27,650 fell but there's no good explanation for 2351 01:38:32,670 --> 01:38:29,660 what it was the project mogul 2352 01:38:36,010 --> 01:38:32,680 explanation simply doesn't work because 2353 01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:36,020 the leader of the project in Alamogordo 2354 01:38:40,230 --> 01:38:37,250 at Holloman Air Force Base 2355 01:38:42,910 --> 01:38:40,240 Alamogordo Army Airfield at the time 2356 01:38:45,250 --> 01:38:42,920 wrote right in his field notes there was 2357 01:38:49,090 --> 01:38:45,260 no flight number for end of story 2358 01:38:51,730 --> 01:38:49,100 so mogul is gone in that sense and I've 2359 01:38:54,480 --> 01:38:51,740 never found anything else to to explain 2360 01:38:58,900 --> 01:38:54,490 what the debris would be so there we are 2361 01:39:02,800 --> 01:38:58,910 yeah okay all right all right hey thanks 2362 01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:02,810 for the call Steve alright so if someone 2363 01:39:07,480 --> 01:39:04,850 wanted to call we have about four or 2364 01:39:09,310 --> 01:39:07,490 four minutes or so left and but that's 2365 01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:09,320 it so it'd have to be a short call and 2366 01:39:14,700 --> 01:39:10,970 that number is eight five five four 2367 01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:14,710 seven two five four eight three and 2368 01:39:19,120 --> 01:39:17,770 looks like we might get one more call 2369 01:39:21,790 --> 01:39:19,130 yep 2370 01:39:27,370 --> 01:39:21,800 hang in we have someone calling in right 2371 01:39:29,530 --> 01:39:27,380 now and I believe it's Dave it looks 2372 01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:29,540 like his phone number the Dave Altman 2373 01:39:38,440 --> 01:39:32,090 that was uh in the in the chat room nope 2374 01:39:41,340 --> 01:39:38,450 it's not okay we have so Kevin while I'm 2375 01:39:44,530 --> 01:39:41,350 waiting for this to be cleared 2376 01:39:47,410 --> 01:39:44,540 can you tell me how someone can find 2377 01:39:49,240 --> 01:39:47,420 your book it's on Amazon right oh it's 2378 01:39:50,770 --> 01:39:49,250 on Amazon absolutely I'm not sure how 2379 01:39:52,330 --> 01:39:50,780 far we're gonna get distributed the 2380 01:39:54,640 --> 01:39:52,340 bookstores in today's environment they 2381 01:39:57,760 --> 01:39:54,650 may not matter very much but it is 2382 01:39:59,410 --> 01:39:57,770 available at Amazon amazon.com this the 2383 01:40:01,780 --> 01:39:59,420 best of Project Blue Book comes from 2384 01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:01,790 flying discs press that's Phillip mantle 2385 01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:05,290 right Phillip Mantle's Phillip mentals 2386 01:40:11,110 --> 01:40:09,050 publishing house and we worked on this 2387 01:40:13,750 --> 01:40:11,120 for a couple of years putting putting it 2388 01:40:16,540 --> 01:40:13,760 together and I've tried to put a number 2389 01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:16,550 of documents in the book so you can see 2390 01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:18,810 what the what the Air Force had to say 2391 01:40:22,900 --> 01:40:20,970 and see where the evidence takes us and 2392 01:40:25,570 --> 01:40:22,910 as I said I brought in information from 2393 01:40:27,770 --> 01:40:25,580 beyond the end of Project Blue Book that 2394 01:40:29,450 --> 01:40:27,780 affects the specific case we're talking 2395 01:40:31,310 --> 01:40:29,460 about information the Air Force wouldn't 2396 01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:31,320 have had at the time and information has 2397 01:40:35,060 --> 01:40:33,690 been gathered long after the events 2398 01:40:37,700 --> 01:40:35,070 right 2399 01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:37,710 we have Brett Brett Clarke calling from 2400 01:40:40,940 --> 01:40:39,330 Tennessee welcome to the show Brett you 2401 01:40:43,090 --> 01:40:40,950 have a question for our guests we only 2402 01:40:46,760 --> 01:40:43,100 have a couple minutes left 2403 01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:46,770 yeah thanks that like a thank dr. 2404 01:40:53,750 --> 01:40:49,730 Randall for his work his service and 2405 01:40:57,290 --> 01:40:53,760 just a couple of questions one if you 2406 01:40:59,780 --> 01:40:57,300 anything's transpired from the it was 2407 01:41:03,350 --> 01:40:59,790 like a helicopter incident with the 2408 01:41:07,450 --> 01:41:03,360 police chopper and well I believe 2nd 2409 01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:07,460 2016 and the other question is what 2410 01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:11,930 chopper has the best glide ratio 2411 01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:15,570 appreciate it thank you alright I have 2412 01:41:21,050 --> 01:41:17,730 no knowledge of a helicopter incident in 2413 01:41:24,050 --> 01:41:21,060 Wales I may have read it I don't I don't 2414 01:41:26,030 --> 01:41:24,060 remember anything about it I'm not sure 2415 01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:26,040 about the glide ratio what you do is if 2416 01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:30,570 the engine fails there's what's called a 2417 01:41:35,480 --> 01:41:32,970 freewheeling clutch between the in the 2418 01:41:38,450 --> 01:41:35,490 engine and the in the rotor head and 2419 01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:38,460 that disengages so it you as you as you 2420 01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:40,970 are falling out of the sky the air 2421 01:41:44,750 --> 01:41:43,290 continue continues to spin the rotor 2422 01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:44,760 blades and as you get close to the 2423 01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:47,370 ground you do what they call flare out 2424 01:41:51,440 --> 01:41:49,290 so you kind of pull back on that on the 2425 01:41:53,180 --> 01:41:51,450 cyclic and you lift the nose and then 2426 01:41:55,940 --> 01:41:53,190 you start bringing up the collective and 2427 01:41:57,500 --> 01:41:55,950 that changes the pitch of the rotor 2428 01:41:59,720 --> 01:41:57,510 blades and it bites the air so that you 2429 01:42:02,060 --> 01:41:59,730 begin to slow down and if you do it 2430 01:42:03,950 --> 01:42:02,070 right you level the skids out at about 3 2431 01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:03,960 feet and then you can cushion it on down 2432 01:42:09,320 --> 01:42:06,090 and you land and every every helicopter 2433 01:42:11,210 --> 01:42:09,330 has the capability of doing that I don't 2434 01:42:12,590 --> 01:42:11,220 know which ones would glide the best I 2435 01:42:14,060 --> 01:42:12,600 would imagine they all glide pretty much 2436 01:42:15,230 --> 01:42:14,070 the same once the engine quits you're 2437 01:42:18,080 --> 01:42:15,240 pretty much falling out of the sky 2438 01:42:19,490 --> 01:42:18,090 that's right that was when I had a 2439 01:42:21,440 --> 01:42:19,500 conversation with a helicopter pilot 2440 01:42:23,450 --> 01:42:21,450 that I know that was one of the 2441 01:42:25,250 --> 01:42:23,460 questions I had you know do fall like a 2442 01:42:27,800 --> 01:42:25,260 rock and he basically explained what you 2443 01:42:30,080 --> 01:42:27,810 just did and I don't know if you know 2444 01:42:32,209 --> 01:42:30,090 anyone that's ever put that to a test do 2445 01:42:34,130 --> 01:42:32,219 you oh I have you have 2446 01:42:37,850 --> 01:42:34,140 oh yeah I had an engine failure of 2,000 2447 01:42:39,290 --> 01:42:37,860 feet oh my god and uh and and the thing 2448 01:42:41,860 --> 01:42:39,300 that always struck me about that is what 2449 01:42:44,090 --> 01:42:41,870 the army training was so good I 2450 01:42:46,040 --> 01:42:44,100 initiated the emergency procedures 2451 01:42:48,290 --> 01:42:46,050 immediately without even thinking about 2452 01:42:50,030 --> 01:42:48,300 them and then as I got everything set up 2453 01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:50,040 and I realized we're going down and I 2454 01:42:54,050 --> 01:42:51,210 made the Mayday call 2455 01:42:55,250 --> 01:42:54,060 I began to physically think about why I 2456 01:42:57,260 --> 01:42:55,260 got to do this this and this and I'd 2457 01:42:59,000 --> 01:42:57,270 already done it automatically and I put 2458 01:43:00,950 --> 01:42:59,010 it down on a rice paddy didn't do any 2459 01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:00,960 damage to the aircraft had a guy on 2460 01:43:06,439 --> 01:43:03,210 board who was going to diros leave 2461 01:43:07,939 --> 01:43:06,449 Vietnam in about four days and he just 2462 01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:07,949 wanted to go for a helicopter ride and I 2463 01:43:10,850 --> 01:43:09,570 said sure hop on board if you want to go 2464 01:43:12,550 --> 01:43:10,860 I was doing what we called the ashen 2465 01:43:14,630 --> 01:43:12,560 trash mission where we flew people and 2466 01:43:17,479 --> 01:43:14,640 equipment around it we had a mission 2467 01:43:19,130 --> 01:43:17,489 every day one aircraft was detailed to 2468 01:43:20,330 --> 01:43:19,140 do that sort of thing if you weren't 2469 01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:20,340 with the flight and that was my day to 2470 01:43:25,670 --> 01:43:22,890 do it me the engine quit at about 2,000 2471 01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:25,680 feet oh my god well Kevin that's it for 2472 01:43:29,090 --> 01:43:27,810 the show I want to thank you so much we 2473 01:43:30,560 --> 01:43:29,100 had someone trying to call in just now 2474 01:43:33,229 --> 01:43:30,570 I'm sorry we can't take your call but 2475 01:43:36,410 --> 01:43:33,239 thanks so much Kevin and as always it's 2476 01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:36,420 it's always a great time talking to you 2477 01:43:41,170 --> 01:43:39,210 and you can catch your block at say your 2478 01:43:45,170 --> 01:43:41,180 say your radio voice there 2479 01:43:47,270 --> 01:43:45,180 ww Kevin Randleman blogspot.com and the 2480 01:43:50,320 --> 01:43:47,280 book is the best project Bluebook go buy 2481 01:43:54,260 --> 01:43:50,330 copies of it and make me rich know what 2482 01:43:56,900 --> 01:43:54,270 my copies yeah get your 32 cents all 2483 01:43:58,580 --> 01:43:56,910 right yeah all right Kevin take care 2484 01:44:00,439 --> 01:43:58,590 alright everyone so that's it for the 2485 01:44:03,439 --> 01:44:00,449 show thank you so much for listening and 2486 01:44:05,660 --> 01:44:03,449 remember to stay safe out there we're 2487 01:44:07,550 --> 01:44:05,670 gonna be back next week with Leslie Cain 2488 01:44:10,040 --> 01:44:07,560 and I do believe we're gonna be talking 2489 01:44:12,979 --> 01:44:10,050 to someone about the new series on the 2490 01:44:15,410 --> 01:44:12,989 skinwalker ranch so make sure you check 2491 01:44:17,810 --> 01:44:15,420 that out on our blog over at podcast UFO 2492 01:44:19,820 --> 01:44:17,820 and thank you for all the supporters and 2493 01:44:21,530 --> 01:44:19,830 thank you every single listener have a 2494 01:44:23,260 --> 01:44:21,540 good night and remember to keep your 2495 01:44:29,570 --> 01:44:23,270 eyes to the sky